Thursday Morning Applesauce: The Krod trade gives us news edition

by Stephen Schmidt on Jul 14, 2011 9:01 AM EDT in Applesauce

There were no games today, so it will be a relatively short Applesauce. We'll start with more K-Rod fallout. The New York Times came to the conclusion that the deal was all about money. I think just about everyone here came to that conclusion before they even heard the terms of the deal. They do point out the interesting fact that K-Rod never submitted his ten teams to block trades to, however, a point that I'm glad our new GM was aware of.

The vest was certainly the main reason the Mets shipped K-Rod to Milwaukee, but the Brewers seem dead set on letting it be a worry to their fans. Manager Ron Roenicke stated yesterday that he plans to allow both K-Rod and Jon Axford opportunities to close as the season wears on. GM Doug Melvin was very non-committal in his comments. It would make sense to me to simply keep Axford in the closer's role, as $17.5 million for a closer is probably harder for the Brewers to afford than it is for even the financially strapped Mets. FanGraphs chimes in with its take of the situation.

Patrick Flood takes a closer look at where K-Rod ranks in many statistical categories in his time with the Mets. I was fairly surprised by some of these, even if they really don't tell us the entire story of his effectiveness with the Mets. Toby Hyde also thinks the deal was a clear win for the Mets.

Mark Simon of ESPN New York examines possible closer Bobby Parnell's arsenal of pitches.

Despite the trade, the Mets insist that the white flag is not being waved. That view could easily change very shortly though, as Alderson has noted that there has been substantial interest in Carlos Beltran.

Jose Reyes is ready to test his injured hamstring. Let's hope that everything goes well and he gets back on the field fully healthy very soon. David Wright, meanwhile, looks set to begin his rehab assignment on Friday.

Finally, the Roger Clemens trial got underway yesterday as awyers from both sides gave their opening arguments. While I'm not a huge fan of Congress spending its time pursuing this, it will certainly be interesting to see what the outcome of this trial is.

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a gm that pays attention to details

How does that work? I’m confused

I hate Philadelphia so much.

by the caveman on Jul 14, 2011 9:07 AM EDT via mobile reply actions

Patrick Flood

is a good read.

by Kepler on Jul 14, 2011 9:18 AM EDT reply actions

All of his work is a good read

But I also agree with his take on Rodriguez. He’s a popular closer because he’s an above-average reliever treated in a special way, a top 10 reliever only in saves. Why? because he’s given all the save opportunities and the most innings.

This is why I think Parnell, or really any good reliever, could thrive as a closer. Give the man some loud music when he comes in the game and some kind of gimmicky facial hair or theatrics and suddenly you have an elite closer.

by TheBigStapler on Jul 14, 2011 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions

There's probably somethign to the "mentality"

but it doesn’t correlate well with save opportunities, i.e., just because a guy has a lot of saves doesn’t mean he’s got the right “mentality.” Save % would help. And really, if you can thrive as an “8th inning” guy, you can probably handle the pressure of closing. In fact, it’s so overvalued and mythologized, it’s probably not worth thinking about unless Parnell blows a bunch of late leads — “closer” until proven ottherwise.

by tmu on Jul 14, 2011 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions

your Capitalization is a little Weird here

by anonymous on Jul 14, 2011 9:48 AM EDT reply actions

Main Title

all-capitalized, subtitle not. Is that improper? It looks weird to me because it’s “Krod” and not “K-Rod.”

by tmu on Jul 14, 2011 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions

good Article by Flood

pretty much confirms what I’ve been saying all along-overpaid by just a little bit (Sarcasm) for an average reliever. and any old schlub can replace him

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Jul 14, 2011 9:50 AM EDT reply actions

I don't think trading Beltran is necessarily waving a white flag

A good GM is constantly churning. He’s not growing attached to pieces, because he’s moving them when he can in order to help his team. With Wright and Davis (fingers crossed) returning within the month, any lost production by Beltran will be made up. Hopefully he’ll get some good pieces, eat some salary, and the team will keep chugging along around .500.

by JayWise on Jul 14, 2011 10:05 AM EDT reply actions

I think hoping for .500 play

is basically waiving the white flag. Getting rid of K-rod didn’t kill our slim playoff hopes, losing Beltran would.

by revans on Jul 14, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions

I think that's a moving target

Most Mets fans would have been happy aiming for a .500 season back in March. Our playoff chances are currently somewhere south of 5%.

by JayWise on Jul 14, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions

hoping for .500

is more than we should really expect. with or without beltran, it’s going to be tough to catch the braves.
i’d love to see carlos stay, but if we can get an outstanding package for him, then i’m sure sandy will take it.

by cntrlalt on Jul 14, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions

You said what I was thinking

But you used prettier words.

by JayWise on Jul 14, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions

i have my moments

CUNY english honors up in hurr!

by cntrlalt on Jul 14, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions

Yeah

I think there’s a difference between hoping and expecting. With Beltran I expect about .500 ball, but there is still some hope of catching the Braves. Without him our odds of catching the Braves drop, but for the right players I would deal him (although I’ve heard Gary Brown and filler, which I wouldn’t be to pleased with)

by revans on Jul 14, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions

There's also a difference between not making a push and waving a white flag

The following people, among others, probably won’t be traded unless a white flag is waved:
Reyes
Wright
Pelfrey
Dickey
Pagan

by JayWise on Jul 14, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions

Disagree

with just pelfrey. If any of the others go we are not just giving up on this year, but going for a long term re-build

by revans on Jul 14, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions

off topic

but assuming carlos goes into the hall of fame, will he go in as a met or a royal?

by cntrlalt on Jul 14, 2011 11:01 AM EDT reply actions

Wilmington Blue Rock

by tmu on Jul 14, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions

well

He accumulated 24.6 of his WAR with KC, 31.4 so far with us, and 3.5 with Houston. I don’t think he is quite a HOFer yet, or for that matter if he ever will be, but he has had his best seasons with us.

by revans on Jul 14, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions

There are only two players who have reached 69 WAR for their career, are eligible, and aren't in the hall.

Jeff Bagwell and Bill Dahlen. At just over 60 at the age of 34 (and on pace for a 5 WAR+ season), there really isn’t any reason to think he won’t reach that level. If he’s never connected with steroids, I can’t see any reason he wouldn’t get in.

by Stephen Schmidt on Jul 14, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions

Dahlen - just looked at his stats, how did he accumulate all that WAR?

you forgot Pete Rose!

Are you using fWAR? Also, don’t think Larry Walker will make it personally. Palmeiro and McGuire probably won’t get the respect either. Tim Raines been overlooked. Edgar Martinez may never get it and Andruw Jones certainly won’t.

There are currently about 97 players who have 69+ WAR, including a lot of names I don’t recognize, so I am guessing I can keep playing this game. Interesting name on the list and not in the hall – Joe Torre

I LIKE IKE!

by astromets on Jul 14, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions

Larry Walker

Deserves it but I agree, I don’t think that he’ll make it. And as for Beltran, I said that I don’t think he’s a HOFer yet, I think 2-3 more years like the one he had this year and he’s in, but a 34 year old with bad knees is no lock to continue his level of production

by revans on Jul 14, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Larry Walker is a really interesting case

Awards: MVP, 6 GG, 3 SS, 5 AS (in 17 seasons)
Stats that matter to HOF voters: 471 doubles, 383 HR, 1231 RBI, .313/.400/.565, 140 OPS+, 230 SB (75% success)

Reasons he won’t get it: Entered his prime at the same time he joined the Rockies and got to play at mile-high. His one MVP should have gone to Piazza (I admit bias here, but I think the best offensive season a catcher will ever have deserves MVP.) Just missed reaching 500 doubles or 400 HRs. Played in the most offensive era in major league history, in the best park for offense. only an all-star 5 times.

I think he is really close to a HOFer, but the hall should be only for those players that were clearly HOFers. Nothing against Walker, but I think he never stood out as one of the best players of his time and that will hurt him. He also doesn’t have playoff heroics or other big single-season achievements (ex – he got to 49 HRs once, his only 40+ HR season) that make him. Finally, the poor play by the Rockies during his tenure won’t look good in the eyes of the voters.

I LIKE IKE!

by astromets on Jul 14, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions

Yup, agree on all points

and when I say he deserves it I mean in the context of the current quality of players in the hall. I think it should be even more selective than it is, but you cant change the standards for admission this late.

by revans on Jul 14, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions

I wonder about Palmeiro

if he had retired after 2004, with 500+ HRs and nearly 3000 hits but no positive steroid test on his record, would he be in the HOF right now? He was never a standout player, but would the milestone have been enough to get him in?

I LIKE IKE!

by astromets on Jul 14, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't think the test really matters to the voters

They only seem to need random thoughts about steroids to deny Jeff Bagwell

by Stephen Schmidt on Jul 14, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions

I used rWAR for this one, as it uses the same formula for every player it covers.

While fWAR is probably a slightly better tool as far as valuing players, I’m of the mind to take consistency across the board over slightly better numbers from 2002 on in this case. All my data therefore came from Baseball Reference.

by Stephen Schmidt on Jul 14, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions

They usually go by games played

ie, which team did he play more games for.

by Joshuah on Jul 14, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions

I'd love to get him for two more good years

before passing him on to the AL. He’s had a very Jim Edmonds-like career so if he gets in, Beltran probably will too.

by TheBigStapler on Jul 14, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Anyone watching the Mets regularly

like most of us do, would probably have guessed those stats Patrick has in his post on KRod.

Frankie was always noted for putting ‘traffic’ on the base paths on the way to saves, even in his Angel days. But somehow, not sure I would have guessed he’s 9th on the save list over that period of time. Looking at that, I’m even more happy we traded him.

I still believe that 5 mph or so loss of velocity over his earlier career does not bode well at all.

by MetsFan4Decades on Jul 14, 2011 11:11 AM EDT reply actions