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Around SBN: Veterans Share Their Favorite Sports Memories

Was Daniel Murphy Out of Position?

There's been quite a bit of discussion around these and other parts about Murphy's positioning on that fateful play Sunday afternoon. Well for those that were not watching the broadcast, SNY aired an interesting little graphic the following night (below). Basically it shows Murphy's play alongside Justin Turner making a similar play on Monday night. In both plays the second baseman fields a throw from the catcher attempting to catch a runner stealing. 

Screen_shot_2011-08-09_at_7

On each play the runner was safe. However, the outcome of the plays doesn't really matter. What matters is how each player lined himself up. On the Turner play he clearly hangs back behind the bag (below), waiting for the throw to reach him and really only exposing one, bent knee as he makes the tag.

Screen_shot_2011-08-09_at_8

When you watch the Murphy play, Paulino's throw was to the shortstop side which doesn't help the matter but Murphy clearly runs directly to the bag as the play unfolds (below). He does NOT wait behind the bag for protection like Turner. In so doing Murphy leaves both legs exposed to the runner, including the vulnerable, unbent left knee. If Constanza had slid in with Turner in position he likely would have spiked him up pretty good, but there's far less chance of catastrophic knee injury there.

Screen_shot_2011-08-09_at_8

It seems to the untrained eye that Murphy did leave himself open to injury, at least more so than a more capable second baseman would on a similar play. Manager Terry Collins -- himself a middle infielder by trade -- echoed that sentiment following the incident.

Now does all of this mean that Murphy is incapable of ever becoming a solid second baseman? Does it even mean that he is not a solid second baseman now? No, not really. What it means is that he still clearly lacks on some of the more instinctive plays -- especially those around the bag -- and that we probably shouldn't downplay the difficulty of second base defense, considering the potentially drastic repercussions.

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Well done

I think Murphy can learn the intricacies position and would be most valuable there. This is why i thought the idea, which came up in a thread a couple of weeks ago, that perhaps Wright should be moved to second, was a bad idea. Although this wasn’t a back to the runner play, just the number of these types of exposed plays would leave to great a risk of Wright getting injured just like Murph.

by wobatus on Aug 10, 2011 12:28 PM EDT reply actions  

If the same slide happens to Turner in the position that he is in that picture

he turns his ankle and possibly destroys some ligaments.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.

by Ogre39666 on Aug 10, 2011 12:45 PM EDT reply actions  

I disagree

What happened on the Murphy play was his knee was bent completely the wrong way. But it’s all moot since it’s all speculative anyway, and as much as I’d like to know more, my grasp on biophysics on the human body’s lacking.

by raggedMestizo on Aug 10, 2011 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

What do you disagree with?

That Turner would get spiked? Or that if spiked, it’s just as possible that Turner would get injured?

Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.

by Ogre39666 on Aug 10, 2011 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

He also shouldn't be riding a bike

in the 400 block of Broadway. A more experienced second baseman would have taken Church Street.

by Kepler on Aug 10, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's clearly not Manhattan,

so taking Church is probably going to add several hours to his trip.

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Aug 10, 2011 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I found a bunch of pictures of well established and well regarded second basemen "out of position", too

Context of the two plays is important, and I think Paulino’s throw on Sunday is not given enough discussion. That’s not to say that Paulino is at fault- there isn’t anyone at fault- but his throw was a bit slow, high, and wide. If his throw was right to the play, Murphy maybe doesn’t have his leg stretched up as high, to give him mobility to get it that planting his leg doesn’t necessarily give him. The way Costanza slid, and how his foot bounced off the base- an improbable thing- also doesn’t get enough discussion. If Murphy had his leg planted, Costanza still slides into him with all that force and bashes into his planted leg. Odds are, I bet he still gets hurt, maybe worse, because his leg is stationary and planted and not “giving”.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 10, 2011 1:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Just accept it.

"Never throw a slider to The Glider."

- Ed Charles, No. 5

"Who has more fun than people?"

- Ralph Kiner

by The Glider on Aug 11, 2011 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, since you said so.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.

by Ogre39666 on Aug 11, 2011 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

The slide

Was horrible. It was a late slide that had Costanza bouncing uncontrollably while approaching second base. Most second basemen would have been clipped in one way or another by his spikes. The sheer force of the slide or over-slide caused damage as much as positioning.

I agree Murphy was inexperienced for the role but give the man a break.

by TheMagus on Aug 10, 2011 1:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Agreed

Look at how late Constanza starts his damn slide? Who starts it 8 feet from the bag?

"I got my pregnant wife (the Yankee fan) with me. Hoping my kid learns to kick her everytime the Mets score." -Schifftis-

by future on Aug 10, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

the issue is the position of the femur

Look at the difference between turner and murph’s femurs. All that other stuff doesn’t matter at all because if Turner would have gotten spiked, he would have just turned his hip in and the knee wouldn’t have any stress.

by Mike Clemente on Aug 10, 2011 1:27 PM EDT reply actions  

His knee would be fine

but his ankle would be in a heap of trouble.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.

by Ogre39666 on Aug 10, 2011 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

:(

Proud to root for the Jets, Mets, and Islanders!!!

by CharlieIsles on Aug 10, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

She can

She hit .306/.396/.541 in 2007. Traid Wrongz

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 10, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

pretty much

if anyone else got injured it would be like, “dang that sucks.” and everyone moves on.

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Aug 10, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know how much is Murphy vs. an inexperienced second baseman

If Wright had gotten hurt playing SS the other day don’t you think everyone would be saying he got hurt because he doesn’t know what he’s doing at SS?

"Sometimes you make a mistake and you get hit in the head." - Eli Manning

by blains2000 on Aug 10, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

depends on how he got hurt

The Murph play was a confluence of crappy events, made slightly worse by his inexperience, but much like the previous injury, it mostly happened on a freakishly bad slide that would have taken any second baseman by surprise.

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Aug 10, 2011 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly this, methinks

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 10, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lesson for the future

What Alderson et al can learn from this “Murphy as the player-without-a-position” drama, is that the Mets need to decide what position a player will play in A ball and develop the capability to play the position well in AA ball. The fellow who reports on the minor leagues here on AmazinAvenue loves Josh Satin, with the caveat that he is a player without a position. Well, now and in 2012, Alderson, Ricciardi, and Teufel, should decide at which position that player’s future lies, and develop the skills to play that position and not wait until he gets to the majors to do that.

by BobGu on Aug 10, 2011 4:03 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't think you can really do player development this way

Sometimes the bat develops faster than the glove, and sometimes the organization’s position of need shifts between when a guy comes in and when he hits the majors. I don’t love the saga of finding Murphy a place to play either, but there really does need to be some flexibility at every stage. It’s not as simple as putting the Sorting Hat on once and then leaving everywhere where it puts them.

by anonymous on Aug 10, 2011 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

But I think his point is

It’s tough to learn your position at the ML level

"Sometimes you make a mistake and you get hit in the head." - Eli Manning

by blains2000 on Aug 11, 2011 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

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