Mets Prospect Graveyard: Lastings Milledge
Really, this is all my fault
I have bad luck with Mets t-shirts. I'd say its a fluke, but we are dealing with a sample size now that even pizzacutter would have to admit probably has some predictive value. I bought a John Maine t-shirt right before he blew out his arm. I bought a Santana t-shirt right before he blew out his arm. I bought a Tom Glavine t-shirt right after he won his 300th game, which was right before Game 162, where he just blew. This past offseason I bought an "I Like Ike" t-shirt, and now he is staring down microfracture surgery. (come on, you can't even cut me a break on this one, the proceeds went to cancer research for god's sake). But still, I think my most impressive t-shirt jinx is Lastings Milledge.
First off, it was completely random that I even found the t-shirt in the first place. It was at a Bob's in Newington, CT (for those of you who aren't CT residents, I am referring to the clothing outlet, not the insane furniture outlet), there was only one, and it was in my size. Milledge wasn't much of a star, certainly compared to the rest of the clothing rack, packed with the usual Wright, Beltran and Reyes shirts. This would have been late Fall 2007, and he hadn't really accomplished much of anything. I had a soft spot for Milledge ever since he high-fived fans after his game-tying home run against San Francisco and consequently blew up the WFAN switchboard with indignant callers. So I bought the shirt and wore it proudly. For about three weeks. Sigh.
In the end, I guess you could call the trade a slight win for the Mets (if you ignore the opportunity cost of trading a well-regarded young prospect like Milledge). Milledge was barely above replacement level for the Nationals, while the Mets managed to squeeze out 4 wins from their D.C. tandem. Still, for a guy who was mentioned in basically every Mets trade rumor from 2005 to 2007 and was a former top 10 prospect in all of baseball, you would have hoped to get more than an averageish catcher and a platoon outfielder in return. Even if it made a bunch of old white newspaper men very happy. But for all the extracurricular stuff that dogged L-MILLZ in his Mets tenure, the story of his fall from prospectdom has little to do with rap albums or locker room issues.
Tools, Tools, and more Tools
The Mets made Lastings Milledge the 12th overall pick in the 2003 draft. Due to the Phillips/Duquette fondness for Type A free agents, Milledge was their only pick in the first three rounds of what ended up a disasterous draft for the Metropolitans. (Warning: Link NSFW, as it may cause sudden, uncontrollable use of profanity) Milledge was a heck of a pick, though. He was the quintessential five-tool prospect, a projected major league centerfielder with plus power/speed potential, not that different from, say, Brandon Nimmo. Unlike Nimmo, though, Milledge had a much more thorough scouting profile and might have gone even higher if it wasn't for some questions about his makeup.
Specifically, there were some accusations of inappropriate sexual contact with underaged girls when he was in high school. He was never charged, though he was expelled from school, and early on in his professional career there seemed to be little concern about his makeup on the field or comportment off of it. Milledge signed early enough to have a cup of coffee in Kingsport in 2003, and then was assigned to full season ball at Capital City in the South Atlantic League for the 2004 season. This was an agressive assignment for the 19 year old, but he handled it well, batting .315/.382/.545 and swiping 23 bags in 29 attempts. The strikeout rate was perhaps a tad high, but the overall results were very encouraging. Milledge was promoted to St. Lucie for 22 games and struggled some at the higher level, but still showed impressive power. John Sickels' post season evaluation showed some trepidation about Milledge's plate discipline, but was otherwise quite positive. Baseball America was even more bullish on Milledge, ranking him as the 11th best prospect in baseball before the 2005 season.
Milledge started 2005 back at St. Lucie and while showing a dip in power, did improve his plate discipline and command of the strike zone on his way to a .302/.385/.418 line. That earned a promotion to AA where he continued to hit to the tune of .337/.392/.487. Keep in mind, Milledge was doing this while spending the entire season as a 20 year old. Baseball America bumped him up to the ninth best prospect in baseball, right between Justin Verlander and Matt Cain. John Sickels gave him an A- and rated him as the 17th best hitting prospect in baseball. For the completists, Baseball Prospectus had him at 13, though PECOTA had concerns about him even in 2006, rating him 46th in its expected future value metric. Of course, PECOTA also liked Yusmeiro Petit more than Phil Hughes, and we all know how that worked out.
While hardly a huge divide, it did seem like the mavens that drooled over tools (BA) liked Milledge a tad more than the statheads (Sickels). That is perhaps a bit of an oversimplification, but there are a few things in Milledge's 2005 statline that might be a cause for a bit of concern. For one, the drop in power is notable.There is no huge park effect at work here, Bingo is a hitter's park, though not hugely so, and it's in a pitcher's league, while St. Lucie has generally been around neutral. Milledge also started to see an erosion of his basestealing ability, swiping only 29 of 47 bases (62%). The other issue was his defense. Now, the error bars on Minor League Total Zone numbers are quite large, but Milledge was rated at 20 runs below average at CF in 2005. What you see is the classic tweener skillset beginning to creep into Milledge's profile, not quite enough power for a corner, not quite enough defense and speed for center.
Of course, all this is with the benefit of hindsight, at the time you might think that Milledge had more than held his own against much older competition, would probably get another shot at AA to further refine his skills, and, hey, power usually develops later on anyway. That is all completely valid reasoning, and, whatever your stats or scouts preference, Milledge would have to rate as one of the top prospects in the game, and certainly the best in the Mets organization.
Rather, than send him back to Binghamton, Milledge started 2006 in Norfolk. By any measure, he more than held his own as a 21 year old. His patience continued to improve, a bit of his power returned, and his .277/.388/.449 line is even more impressive when you consider that Norfolk was such a horrible place to hit that year that his MLE line would actually be even higher than what he posted in AAA. The Mets were cruising to a division title, (*sighs, takes a moment to reflect*) but still managed to yo-yo Milledge up and down from the minors every time Cliff Floyd got hurt.(which, obviously, was quite often). The Mets finally settled on Shawn Green in RF, Endy Chavez in LF and Lastings Milledge in AAA. In his brief MLB appearances, Milledge hit .241/.310/.380 which, while suggesting he was overmatched, isn't horrendous for a 21 year old (the youngest in the National League) getting erratic playing time.
The Blastings Thrilledge Era Arrives
2007 was more of the same for Milledge, basically replace Cliff Floyd with Moises Alou in the above paragraph, and you get the idea. Milledge actually improved some, as much as you can say that from a pair of 200 PA samples, batting .272/.341/.446. Now most of those gains can be considered BABIP noise, but Milledge was showing a strong LD%, and you had to have every expectation that the power would come for the 22 year old. It did appear he was now llimited to a corner outfield spot, though. He had basically stopped stealing bases, and his MiLBTotal Zone and MLB UZR numbers were both negative, even in the corners. He also dealt with some nagging injuries throughout 2007, but these, of course, weren't the "real problems."
It all started in the previous season, when the aforementioned "five-gate" occurred. Then there was Billy Wagner, noted jerk locker room leader and the infamous "Know your place, rook" sign. Then, Milledge made a guest appearance on a rap record with some naughty lyrics, and there was the usual hand-wringing from the fourth estate. Basically, a picture was being painted. Milledge was too immature, especially for the Mets veteran locker room. Marty Noble, noted curmudgeon, still harps on this FOUR YEARS LATER. Being a rookie with high expectations in NYC can be difficult, just ask Greg Jeffries, and I don't pretend to know all of went on behind the scenes. There was talk of Milledge not hustling, or showing up late to the ballpark, and his bat didn't exactly silence his would-be detractors. I really hesitate to bring race into the discussion, cause I think a lot of the 'makeup' stuff is secondary here, but I can't say I am surprised to see the rather crotchety NYC sports media side with 'fiery quote guys' Billy Wagner and Paul lo Duca over the 'more urban' Milledge. The fact that it gave them a chance to write the 'kids these days don't have any respect and should stay off my lawn' story that they all love to write didn't hurt either. That's not to say there weren't real issues in the locker room (don't forget, this was during the no-nonsense, no-facial hair Willieball era), or that Milledge didn't perhaps handle things like an immature 22 year old would.
Outside of the off-field issues, on the field, Milledge was looking less like an elite prospect as well. Still, for a player once mentioned in trade rumors around Roy Oswalt and Barry Zito, it was disheatening to see him traded for such an unimpressive haul. This was reminiscent of the recent Yuniel Escobar and Colby Rasums deals, a young, talented player who fell out of favor with the locker room or manager getting traded for pennies on the dollar. Granted, the trade didn't work out as poorly for the Mets as it could have, but that doesn't mean the process was even remotely trustworthy. Was there really an expectation that Ryan Church would be better than Milledge in 2008, let alone in the medium or long term?
Milledge was handed the everyday CF job for the Nationals in 2008. The results were not good. He made around average contact, but didn't walk enough, and his power had basically disappeared. He did steal 24 bases at an okay clip, but his defense in center was abysmal. UZR rated him 16.8 runs below average. Total Zone and +/- didn't think he was quite that bad, but both had him as a below average centerfielder. Combine that with below average offense (93 wRC+) and you get a replacement level player. (0.6 WAR). In 2009 the Nationals shipped him to Pittsburgh along with Joel Hanrahan and Milledge saw further degeneration of his skills. He was moved to the corners and was at least average defensively there, but his power was now completely gone, and he walked in less than 5% of his plate appearances. From the Pirates onwards to the White Sox, where he made the opening day roster this year, but was barely up a week before being designated for assignment and shipped off to the Charlotte Knights. Milledge is currently posting a respectable, but hardly impressive, .297/.363/.459 line in AAA. He sports a career line of .269/.328/.395 line in the majors, good for a wRC+ of 91, and 1.1 fWAR.
So what went wrong?
Let's ignore the 'maturity issues' and the hip-hop singles and the high fives for a moment. I'm not saying that stuff is or is not important, though it is certainly good grist for the 24 hour news mills, but Milledge's problems on the field were far less sensational and far more mundane. When drafted, he was projected to be a five-tool centerfielder, perhaps in the mold of a Grady Sizemore or Curtis Granderson, but as he matured and his frame filled out, (he was listed at 180 lbs when drafted, 210 today) he simply didn't have the range to play centerfield. Finding a MLB quality centerfielder is quite difficult, and projecting an 18 year old CF as a 24 year old CF is a risky game. (something to keep in mind with Brandon Nimmo, by the way) Having to move off of centerfield is not dire for a prospect, though it does bring with it higher expectations for the bat. Milledge hit well throughout his minor league career, but those batting lines were inflated by a high batting average and looked much better in center than in right. I am not here to poo-poo his prospectdom after the fact, but a lot of the helium in his prospect ranking was from more traditional scouting sources that were in love with his tools.
And tools, well sometimes they don't fully develop into baseball skills. Rather than adding power as he added mass, Milledge's ISO was never higher than it was in A ball, and his major league ISO is comparable to noted sluggers Felix Pie and Franklin Gutierrez. His base stealing ability never really manifested in the pros, and overall he's been a below average baserunner for his career. And while he showed decent plate discipline in the minors, he's taken a hacktastic approach in the bigs, walking in only 6.3% of his plate appearances.
That's the nuts and bolts of the matter. Now, not every corner outfield prospect needs to profile as Mike Stanton, but every single one of Milledge's five tools has ended up as below average (I guess +/- still likes his arm, to be fair). There is an argument that he was rushed to the majors a bit, and then jerked around on the AAA shuttle, and more development time might certainly have helped. I guess you could say the makeup issues played a part, too, but in the end if he had the bat, he would have played. Milton Bradley, by every account a far more destructive locker room presence, got every opportunity to napalm bridges, but he is also the owner of a career .271/.364/.440 line and a couple all-star type seasons.
Anyway, that is how it goes with toolsy high school kids. Sometimes you get Jay Bruce and sometimes you get Lastings Milledge.
L-MILLZ 2k12?
I'm actually not going to compare Milledge to Brandon Nimmo, though their scouting profiles aren't hugely different. That's not a bad thing, by the way, as Milledge had an all-star ceiling when he was drafted. I'm actually going to draw some parallels with Buffalo SS/2B Jordany Valdespin. Obviously, Valdespin doesn't have Milledge's pedigree as a prospect, and by the time Milledge was Valdespin's age, he was already accruing major league service time. But like Milledge, Valdespin is a tools prospect who is likely to have to move off his premium defensive position and will have to to show some pop at the MLB level to be reach an all-star ceiling. And yes, he has some well-documented makeup issues. I point this out more just to mention that he will likely end up getting harangued by the press every time he makes a 'bonehead play' or 'fails to hustle,' and he will have to deal with that kind of conflict better than he has in the past.
Nimmo actually isn't a bad comp either, though I imagine he will be moved through the system more conservatively than Milledge was. Also, Nimmo just doesn't have enough of a track record that would make me comfortable making any kind of comp.
An Addendum
I guess there is an unanswered question lingering here. Milledge is hitting a bit at AAA and obstenibly entering his peak years. Tools players can sometimes have unorthodox development curves, too. So is it worth it for some team to take a flyer on Lastings Milledge?
One thing to keep in mind is that the offensive environment of 2011 is not the offensive environment of 2008, a line similiar to Milledge's AAA line will certainly play in LF. Of course, one reason the offensive environment is depressed is because teams are starting to shy away from bat only players, and Milledge is not particularly good defensively, even in a corner. He has tended to hit lefties pretty well and can fake centerfield if you cover you eyes and have a groundball pitcher on the mound, so he's not the worst fourth outfielder candidate. But outside of his prospect pedigree, there is not really anything seperating him from all the other fringy outfielders of the world.
Up Next
Bill Pulsipher? Justin Huber? Esix Sneed? A return to a biweekly schedule? Only time will tell.
Oh, and in case you were wondering
The shirt went to Goodwill two moves ago. I kind of regret it.
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I feel like this is often the case leading to ranking some players high (like Flores)
but a lot of the helium in his prospect ranking was from more traditional scouting sources that were in love with his tools.
I LIKE IKE!
Well,
when I had some joker at Metsblog (yeah, I know) lecturing me on how his “PECOTA” suggested he would turn into Grady Sizemore, and if I didn’t know already, that would be pretty good, etc., etc., I’m not sure we can say it was all “traditional scouting” that was blowing his oboe.
He can buy a Hday1 shirt if he wants.
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The Unwritten Rules of AA
about Valdespin
he will have to move off the premium SS, to his more natural and still premium 2B spot. There, his offense won’t need to be super impressive to be better than the other options (Tejada, Turner…) or better than league average for 2B. I do think Valdespin needs more time in the minors to work on drawing walks, and possibly defense at SS. Since he does compare pretty well to Jose Reyes, it is possible that he can get by without walking much early on his career, but I doubt he will ever walk at a greater than 10% clip
I LIKE IKE!
I am too lazy to look up his stats
but I got the impression that he was a hacker at the dish.
Milledge was pretty patient, so the comp is a little off no?
I also agree with you Astro, I think he has a decent shot at second base. As posited on Toby Hyde’s blog, Valdespin might very well be better than Tejada, due to speed and slugging.
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by Coolpapabell on Aug 16, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
By the way
I’m not disagree with you, just chiming into to what you wrote.
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by Coolpapabell on Aug 16, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
by the end of the comment I could tell
plus his defense at 2B is supposed to be good enough that they tried him at SS
I LIKE IKE!
Yes and no
Obviously the offensive bar in the corner outfield is higher than in the middle infield so you can live with Valdespin’s hacking tendencies as long as he maintains good power on contact. And he actually doesn’t strike out a ton, he just doesn’t walk. Regardless, the comp was based around on Valdespin needing to maintain his power unlike Milledge. Milledge’s walk rate also wasn’t that high until he got to AAA.
But yeah, it’s not the most precise comp in the world. Nimmo is probably better on a pure tools basis.
the artist formerly known as TeufelCat
@jeffpaternostro
by Jeffrey Paternostro on Aug 16, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
This is pretty neat
thanks
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also
a return to bi-weekly is encouraged, because these are fun
I LIKE IKE!
by astromets on Aug 16, 2011 3:48 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
Billy Beane, Alex Escobar, etc
"..."
by Thaddeus Ballpheasant on Aug 17, 2011 4:07 AM EDT up reply actions
possible multiple Mets prospect graveyard idea
if multiple prospects were dealt in the same deal (like say the Santana trade) then cover them in the same piece – extra fun for us readers :). Mainly saying this cause I want to hear what happened to Kevin Mulvey and Deolis Guerra (SP?)
I LIKE IKE!
I've been toying with the Santana trade
But it will probably have to wait for the offseason as that is like four times the research.
the artist formerly known as TeufelCat
@jeffpaternostro
by Jeffrey Paternostro on Aug 17, 2011 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions
For prospects, I don't think the makeup should be overlooked. (not talking specifically about L-Millz, but in general)
Specifically the makeup part that plays a role in how the player develops his skills and how he deals with adversity when moving up in the system. Does a pitcher tries to corrects his flaws or just go through the system by overmatching lesser competition using the power of his fastball? He might show some results at that level but he won’t be refine his plays. Does he scuffs at the coaches advises (“OBP is not on the scoreboard!”) or doesn’t properly take care of his body (“fat toad!”)?
(This is obviously not to about taking the lesser talented, but more hardworking prospect. It’s mostly about the development phase of each prospect. I’m not talking about MLB players who are already producing there either.)
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The Unwritten Rules of AA
Look away John Peterson
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I'm just glad that
“Blastings Thrilledge” is used in a “Prospect Graveyard” years later.
by JohnPeterson on Aug 20, 2011 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I still lobby Esix Sneed
Remember when Lastings was supposedly in trade rumors regarding Manny? What could have been, in theory.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 16, 2011 4:22 PM EDT reply actions
Yes
But, with a name like that, he could’ve been so much more…
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 16, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
He was also rumored to be going in a trade with Heilman in '06 for Roy Oswalt.
by graves9 on Aug 16, 2011 4:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
All we needed was one more pitcher
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by Coolpapabell on Aug 16, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I remember reading that like the day before the deadline '06.
And then Duaner Sanchez went for Dominican food at 2 AM…………
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by Steve Schreiber on Aug 16, 2011 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
The arroz con pollo that changed history
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by Coolpapabell on Aug 16, 2011 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Cliff Floyd who was a mentor of Wright and Reyes' when they came up
also had his issues with Milledge and pretty much said he noted he needed to grow up. I loved the whole high five thing, and was shocked Mike and the Mad Dog of all people defended him over it. I was pissed when Milledge was traded because he had shown improvement from ‘06 to 07 and I thought he was gonna be a really good player. Watching the guy play Cf with the Nats was quite comical. I remember there was a Milledge for Blanton trade rumor out there in the middle of ’07, and Mets fans went bonkers over the idea. You know considering what Milledge was traded for, and how his career turned out that wouldn’t have been a bad deal at all. Blanton would be making starts down the stretch of the ’07 season instead of dreck like Brian Lawrence. and the Mets likely make the playoffs.. As far as the next prospect graveyard how bout David West?
by graves9 on Aug 16, 2011 4:27 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
return from the graveyard for Prospect Graveyard!
well thought out and written Jefferey, scary to compare Nimmo to Thrilledge, very scary.
I think mismanagement and his off-the field antics and on-the-field stuff probably had something to do with his downfall.
the Metsies tend to rush their top prospects even before they are ready.
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
I'd like to see Justin Huber
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Guy who buys a Glavine shirt
Gets what he deserved.
"Good hitter. Shitty team -- good hitter."
by Dandy Salderson on Aug 16, 2011 4:56 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Never did like Milledge
He looked clumsy and slow in the OF and looked too much like a guess hitter at the plate.
I think that the Milledge trade
Was still unnecessary because the Nationals were planning on CUTTING Ryan Church anyway. We could have had Church for free, and then taking on Schneider’s salary…you’d think we could have done better. Looking on how well Church played while not being dicked around, and Schneider, we did well in the trade, but it doesn’t make me feel like we couldn’t have done better in the deal.
"I got my pregnant wife (the Yankee fan) with me. Hoping my kid learns to kick her everytime the Mets score." -Schifftis-
Buy a Willie Harris shirt please
and hope he breaks his leg!
Sighhh
Jay Bruce really does closely resemble an alternate universe version of Milledge’s career arc where the power developed as expected, doesn’t he?
you are welcome to buy a shirt for
victorino, halladay, hamels, oswalt, etc. any day now.
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by Cory Braiterman on Aug 16, 2011 7:21 PM EDT reply actions
Milledge Addendum
Anyone else here remember when we tried to get him voted into the All-Star game while he was in AAA just to show whatever team demoted him?
Kind of like
how Brad Emaus was the Mets 2nd base option on this year’s ballot?
Formerly a part time contributor and pittier of fools, now an Emeritus at Lighthouse Hockey.
by David Hanssen on Aug 16, 2011 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions
2 things
ISO is comparable to noted sluggers Felix Pie and Franklin Gutierrez
ha!
also the napalming bridges line was good too
"Anybody with ability can play in the big leagues. But to be able to trick people year in and year out the way I did, I think that was a much greater feat." -Bob Uecker
"Who is the girl in the dugout, with the long hair? What's going on here? You have got to be kidding me. Only player personnel in the dugout. I won't say that women belong in the kitchen, but they don't belong in the dugout." -Kieth Hernandez
BTW, that 2003 draft is possibly the single worst in the history of all sports.
No 2nd or 3rd round picks, and just 4 players reached the majors (Milledge, Brian Bannister, Carlos Muniz, and Evan MacLane). Man, several people better have been fired over that one.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Aug 17, 2011 12:47 AM EDT reply actions
Not the worst
The Mets’ 2000 draft produced no positive-WAR players at all, not even an innings-eater on the order of Bannister.
Grand total: -1.2 WAR.
From a cursory search, the Phillies’ 1994 draftees collectively produced an astonishing -8.4 rWAR. Let that sink in for a moment.
Now I'm looking back through old drafts, horrified at the sheer amount of failure.
And ‘02 may have been even worse than 2000 – only Kazmir and Lindstrom reached the majors, and once again, no 2nd or 3rd rounders. I always knew the draft was a crapshoot, but I never realized how much emphasis should be placed on ’crap’.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Aug 17, 2011 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions
This is a great feature on this website
THANKS!! And I loved Blastings Thrilledge, wanted him to be the starter. Thank God I’m not in the mets FA….
Proud to root for the Jets, Mets, and Islanders!!!
by CharlieIsles on Aug 17, 2011 9:16 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Endy Chavez is a better hitter than Lastings Milledge.
That’s poor, Lastings, that’s poor.
Kicking knowledge in the face.

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