Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: The MMA Hour Is Back

R.A. Dickey Can't Win For Losing

Photo

Watching the Mets fail to capitalize on another sharp start by R.A. Dickey on Sunday reminded me of a brief debate that broke out in the comments section of my post last week about the closer credentials of Pedro Beato

The crux of the debate revolved around one commenter's misunderstanding of Dickey's effectiveness in wins as compared to losses -- or, as one might guess blindly, that the Mets knuckleballer pitched more effectively in wins than in losses. It's not a claim without validity; pitchers factor into results just like any of the other position players.

Despite the claim being promptly snuffed out by the majority of you lovely readers and commenters who know better than to merely judge a pitcher's performance based on his win-loss record, the debate enticed me to take a casual glance at Dickey's win-loss splits to see if there was anything glaring in his performance.

And there was, much to Dickey's detriment this season.

Star-divide

Without further ado, here's some selected stats from Dickey's win-loss splits in 2011:

Split G W L IP ERA FIP BB/9 SO/9 SO/BB BA OBP SLG BAbip
Wins 5 5 0 33.2 1.87 4.10 3 7.8 2.6 .242 .305 .406 .281
Losses 11 0 11 73.1 4.54 4.32 2.7 5.2 1.9 .277 .334 .422 .301
ND 11 0 0 60 3.75 3.93 1.5 5.7 3.8 .258 .297 .376 .282
Total 27 5 11 167 3.72 3.96 2.3 5.9 2.5 .263 .315 .402 .290

Stats provided by Baseball-Reference.com

What struck me about Dickey's peripherals wasn't that he pitches better in wins than losses. A quick glance reflects that he strikes out fewer batters in losses than wins, which may be attributed to the smaller sample size or to any trouble that Dickey may have had harnessing his knuckler. SO/9 ratios of other knuckleballers like Tim Wakefield and Joe Niekro aren't so wide over their careers, though it's admittedly not fair to directly compare a single-season performance to career averages like that.

All besides the point. What struck me was how well Dickey has pitched in no-decision performances this season. He's arguably been even better in those games, which is further observed in seeing that the Mets went on to win six of Dickey's 11 no-decisions after he couldn't factor into the decision. It's not enough to end calls for the Mets to seek out an ace or grow one on the farm or put in a cheat code before their next outing to supersize Mike Pelfrey, but Dickey's been everything one can ask of a starter in any Major League rotation -- let alone this one.

Far be it from Darth Dickious (his nickname for himself, not mine) to cry about spilled milk after an outing like yesterday, though. From MLB.com's Aaron Taube:

"We can't mope around and feel sorry for ourselves," Dickey said. "Everybody can look at the schedule and look at who we're playing, and it's not going to get any easier.

"Our moms and our wives are the only ones who are going to feel sorry for us right now."

Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be knuckleballers for the 2011 Mets.

Comment 18 comments  |  2 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Split G W L
Wins 5 5 0

Obviously…

Nets Mets Giants ALL DAY

by netsareboss on Aug 22, 2011 2:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Interesting

So, Dickey has pitched his best when he got a no-decision. Very interesting.

Now, kids, being eaten by a crocodile is just like going to sleep; in giant blender.

by meigs1414 on Aug 22, 2011 2:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Praise Dickey!

He’s basically old reliable. I only hope that he doesn’t get discouraged by his W/L record, and try to change something, whether it be throw more fastballs, or fewer fastballs, or more Dickeyphuses, or fewer Dickeyphuses, or whatever it may be, in an attempt to get more wins. He seems a smart guy, who knows that pitcher W/L records are team records as much as they are individual performance records, so hopefully he doesn’t get discouraged/frustrated/whatever, and change anything in an attempt to get more wins.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 22, 2011 2:48 PM EDT reply actions  

praise low bb/9 rates

ramen

The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com

by Cory Braiterman on Aug 22, 2011 2:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Not only is he an effective SP

But he represents himself, his family, and the organization very well. He’s smart, seems to be good with the media and the fans, and he is a joy to watch pitch.

We are all very lucky to have him as part of this organization, and as a fan, to me watching him pitch is right up there with watching Straw hit, Keith field, Doc pitch, and Piazza slug. I know that’s putting him in some great company, and while he might not be remembered that way, that’s how much I enjoy the “complete Dickey package”. What, did I say something funny?

Proud to root for the Jets, Mets, and Islanders!!!
Twitter: cmauceri524

by CharlieIsles on Aug 22, 2011 3:13 PM EDT reply actions  

It would be great

to have him remain with the organization after his playing days are over although I can’t really see a knuckleballer as a pitching coach. He’s probably more likely to become a college professor somewhere.

by packard37 on Aug 22, 2011 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

We did have Charlie Hough as a pitching coach for a couple of seasons

so a knuckleball pitcher becoming a pitching coach isn’t unprecedented. I’d love to see him manage somewhere…he’s a great speaker, for press conference/media purposes and he’s always a team first kind of guy. I also wouldn’t be surprised if he was a little unconventional in his managing. He’s a smart guy and he’s already unconventional as a pitcher, as it is…I could see him trying new things and not being afraid of the media consequences.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Aug 22, 2011 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

plus

dickey wasnt a knuckleballer for the majority of his career. until 2005 he pitched the same way everybody else does

metsjetsknicksrangers.............can it get any worse?

by dabu7 on Aug 22, 2011 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

OK you both convinced me

Warthen out, Dickey in as player / coach. A win win situation

by packard37 on Aug 22, 2011 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

mamas don't let your babies grow up to be knucklers..

Just let them throw fastballs or sliders or cuts
let them be shortstops or catchers with guts
mama dont let your babies grow up to be knucklers
specially for teams that can’t give them a lead
even against some guys who suck….

by nynjmetsfan on Aug 22, 2011 4:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Run Support Splits

In Wins: 6.60 (largely due to 14 runs against the Tigers, 4.75 otherwise)
In Losses: 2.36
In NDs: 4.27

Columnist at Beyond the Box Score. Contributor at Amazin' Avenue.

by Bill Petti on Aug 22, 2011 5:16 PM EDT reply actions  

It might be good for Dickey to be a little wild

Maybe that higher BB/9 in his wins than in his no decisions is indicative of a night when his knuckler is really knuckling — as opposed to staying straight.

I think it’s hard to say he pitched “better” in his NDs with so little information.

by Brian Mangan on Aug 22, 2011 8:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Wow. A whole post based on my misinterpretation of stats.

TRBLE. But, fair AA posters, THESE were the exact stats I was talking about. My point wasn’t so much his W/L record itself but these stats attached to them. It’s clear he is worse in his losses (which makes sense), but the OP is right in that the NDs are the craziest factor here.

by eDaPS on Aug 23, 2011 8:51 AM EDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Madmen_icon_small
Daniel Murphy And Empty Batting Averages
Gary_carter_small
fxcarden's Nightly Rant! - Vol. I, No. 2 (August, 2011)
Small
A projection of the rest of 2012 using two key stats
Gary_carter_small
fxcarden's Nightly Rant! - Vol. I, No. 1 (July, 2011)
159714144_040c6c1501_small
The Greatest Bison: Frank Grant and the Color Line

Recent FanPosts

Img_1435_small
This Week in Mets Quotes
Small
Game Replays
Small
Santana or Sabathia?
Small
Whats to be done with the 'Pen?
Small
What about Oswalt?
61atehunexl__sl500_aa300__small
This Week in Mets' Overreaction

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

A WIN METHOD (TM) PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

These guys are playing hardball. Ok, we must all mobilize, everybody... you do realize, this means WAR!

(Click here to embiggen)
At 5:30 PM EDT today Starting today at 5:00 PM EDT, witness one of the greatest renderings of visual sound effects ever!

UPDATE 1: My browser has crashed several times in the process from all the rants (FUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!) - as a result, there will instead be 4 or 5 separate installments of fxcarden's Nightly Rants! from 2011, with a similar pattern for the 2012 rants. Take my word for it, when I say that it's for the best. Here's the revised schedule:

Volume 1: 2011
No. 1: Today at 5:00 PM EDT
No. 2: Tomorrow
No. 3: Thursday
No. 4 and No. 5 (?) TBD

UPDATE 2: Vol. I, No. 1 (July, 2011) is now up!
beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeautiful colorization of Willie Mays' over-the-shoulder catch. Credit from Beyond the Box Score via Reddit. Embiggen at http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7071/7231074678_3faa94a82b_o.jpg
Frank Francisco is... The Most Interesting Closer In The World embiggen
2013 ALL-STAR GAME(TM) LOGO CONTEST

Major League Baseball has formally announced that Citi Field will be the site of the 2013 All-Star Game. (see video) In light of this, I have decided to launch an All-Star Game logo contest. To help get you started, I provided all of you with a sample All-Star Game logo. (click here to embiggen) If you wish to participate, please enter your submission with an image below, in the comments section. The contest ends on May 31st. I will choose a select number of finalists, and the community will vote on which of those logos is the best one.

Can you create a better logo than the sample logo provided? Then, give it a shot. Good luck to all participants!

Recent FanShots

Quick question regarding ISO
3 "Gap" HRs
Beacon makes it official: No Ottawa EL team in 2013
As Memorial Day Nears, a Single Image Continues to Haunt - New York Times
John Maine signs a minor league deal with the Yankees
Indians Reliever Joe Smith Was Forced To Retreat Because No One Summoned Him From The Bullpen
Marlins looking to trade for outfielder to replace Bonifacio
Ike will not be demoted
Mocking the MLB draft

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

Yahoo_full_count

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Madmen_icon_small
Daniel Murphy And Empty Batting Averages
Gary_carter_small
fxcarden's Nightly Rant! - Vol. I, No. 2 (August, 2011)
Small
A projection of the rest of 2012 using two key stats
Gary_carter_small
fxcarden's Nightly Rant! - Vol. I, No. 1 (July, 2011)
159714144_040c6c1501_small
The Greatest Bison: Frank Grant and the Color Line

Recent FanPosts

Img_1435_small
This Week in Mets Quotes
Small
Game Replays
Small
Santana or Sabathia?
Small
Whats to be done with the 'Pen?
Small
What about Oswalt?
61atehunexl__sl500_aa300__small
This Week in Mets' Overreaction

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


THE BIG GUY

Aa_avatar_small Eric Simon

THE INCREDIBLES

Blackfish2_small Alex Nelson

Endy_small Rob Castellano

Img_1262_small Matthew Artus

Kanye_pekka_small Sam Page

Best_infield_ever_small James Kannengieser

Metsstitches_small Eno Sarris

48900_1085732804_4466_n_small Chris McShane

Lg_rocker_ap_small Matthew Callan

Billy_and_daddy_4th_of_july_small Bill Petti

THE NEWS GURUS

Mrmet_small Steve Schreiber

3_small Stephen Schmidt

159714144_040c6c1501_small Pack Bringley

124967042_crop_340x234_small Jeffrey Paternostro