It's Getting Late Way Too Early for Terry Collins

he needs two offseasons to prove his mettle, and really there is no other option that would really make this team competitive. TC has put together some baffling lineups, but he’s as good or better at lineup creation than most of the managers in the league. it doesn’t seem to be a job that attracts the best and the brightest with the exception of a few, and i would much rather have Terry because of his cognizance of player development than any idiot like bochy or scioscia who think it’s a good idea to let their top prospects be role players.

until this team starts losing when it isn’t this depleted, i’m not ready to give up on up on Terry just yet.

If a manager hasn’t shown he can be competent through one season, get rid of him and move on. I don’t really care what kind of positive vibes he gives the team if he can’t manage a bullpen and I definitely don’t care about how nice of a guy he is if bunting is his favorite baseball play.

I’m not making any judgement on Collins here, but if a manager can’t do basic manager things, I don’t see why one season isn’t enough to make that decision.

Unless the FO makes a series mistake in the hiring of a manager, can we please refrain from firing the head coach every year? Nothing like adding to the ‘clown’ label this franchise has.

I can understand why they let Willie go, even though it wasn’t all his fault, it was more than time.
Jerry was a different matter all together. He wore out his welcome right after the half season he took over for Willie. Not sure he ever should have got a contract.

Terry is what most thought he was hired to be, which is probably a couple year ‘rebuilding’ type manager that can interact well with the team and especially the youth coming up. If he does a good job, and takes a rebuilt team deep into the season or even post season, can decide then what to do going forward. But firing him now? For what purpose? You can’t get blood out of a stone. No one who replaced him would get much better from this team as currently constructed.

But I think it’s time we had a fresh face, and get rid of Dan Warthen. I know the Pitching Coach can’t make players magically better, but he can evaluate his staff and find out what they’re doing wrong and help fix it. I haven’t seen that from Warthen.

I think he’s lasted more than long enough here as the pitching coach. A new voice is needed.

No one’s calling the Mets pathetic these days……

Tell that to the NY media, WFAN, Fatcessa, ESPN, and the rest who slam the Mets at the drop of a hat.

Firing Collins because of this is foolish. Manuel and Omar didn’t have a crippling payroll after the season we all agreed not to speak of. In addition Omar did nothing at the trade deadline last season when their was an obvious need. Alderson and Collins did have a payroll that was restricted so we couldn’t get involved in the Cliff Lee sweepstake nor pursuit any of the other good free agents. After it was found that Wilpon was involved with the Madoff case, we were lied to that the team wasn’t effective. The truth came out after the 2010 season. Collins should get a chance when the team has money to actual play with. You dont put someone in a losing situation and then get pissed if the man loses. I personally like Collins and he deserves a full shot when money will be freed up next season. If we do get rid of someone it should be Dan Warthen.

I think some people thought that the Mets 2011 season might have had the same result as the Jets 2009 season. In the fact that despite all the new changes, the Jets got into the playoffs. 2011 was a wash year for the Mets we all knew this going in, the spurts of victories made us happy but thats what was all going to happen.

However for the sake of argument if Collins does go here would be my list. Obvious some of these guys would have to be fired

1. Ozzie Guillen
2. Buck Showalter
3. Maybe hire Willie Randolph back
4. Joe Maddon
5. Wally Backman

I’ve had issues with Collins this year, I think we all have. But they aren’t anywhere near the levels of outright belligerence that Manuel was exhibiting, particularly near the end of his tenure. They both made/make silly in-game decisions, but the absolute disregard Jerry Manuel showed for his players and the club as a whole was insane. Collins at least appears to be able to properly manage the media and the players respect him and will play for him. He doesn’t just sit there chucking like a goddamn clown and threatening to stab people.

Let’s give him at least another year.

I think his poor player usage in the first few months of the season (Hu, Byrdak) and his inability to yank pitchers when they’ve clearly hit a wall (Pelf, Cap) have definitely cost the mets a number of wins, probably ranging from 6-10.

That said, the immense amount of injuries to every singe player on the team not named Duda or Gee has been ridiculous. I think Niese managed to stay free of the bug, but I’m too lazy to look it up, so don’t quote me on it. I give Collins credit where it’s due for keeping an AAA lineup motivated and playing adequately. I’ll repeat my earlier theory in that if he didn’t get fired for using Hu as a pinch hitter in crucial situations, he’s not getting fired for anything else he’s done this year.

Warthen on the other hand, is looking more and more like his neck should be on the block. Bullpen is atrocious and the starting 5 have not been the greatest either.

…. won’t be the manager if/when the Mets get to where the front office is guiding them. I always saw Collins as a bookmark until the next managerial candidate was ready. That candidate could be Wally Backman, Tim Teufel, or someone who becomes available outside of the organization.

Murphy went down, Jose went Down, we traded Beltran, this team was scoring runs. Those things probably have more to do with the lack of offense than TC.

Also, there isn’t any manager that could turn the chicken shit we call a pitching staff into chicken salad. My God, I’d rather let the opponent throw the ball up and hit it; at least, they wouldn’t walk 3, 4, 5 battters in a row.

I don’t care who they fire or don’t fire, but this mess is about players – not managers or coaches.

Anyone else feel the earthquake?!

AdamRubinESPN Adam Rubin
Wow. Felt the DC earthquake in Philly. Hotel shook. Fire alarms went off.

There was never enough talent on this team to reasonably compete this year.

As of right now, I’d give him a C grade as a manager, which is not very good. But, a lot of stuff this season has happened, and we’ve only been exposed to him, and him the team, for one year, so I’m willing to give him some leeway. This time next season, if he hasn’t corrected his many and glaring managerial flaws, I’ll be wholeheartedly calling for his release.

Sure they guy isn’t Jerry bad, but is that really all that’s needed for a manager to keep his job? He doesn’t throw his players under the bus. That’s great but that stuff that shouldn’t be happening anyway. You don’t get points for not doing things you shouldn’t be doing. He is not very good in-game be it pinch-hitting, the bullpen, or basic strategy. His use of Harris, Iggy, Hu, and Duda (the bunt) should be enough that he is not around for very long.
Thankfully we are in rebuild/reload mode so Collins faults can’t hurt us but I’m not satisfied with a manager whose only positive attributes are not being Jerry and cultivating a “positive attitude”. Also, thankfully we have a GM who probably already knows all this and is grooming an in-house candidate with Chip Hale.

Is the sign of a terribly run organization. Stability has its benefits. Collins is basically average, seems to be okay with the clubhouse and media and his line-ups are generally not terrible even if he chases the platoon advantage way too much. Bullpen management has been an issue, but seperating out his decision making from the atrocious bullpen performance would be difficult.

Anyway, he’s probably here as a culture change guy/steward until the FO gets the team back on its feet, then he will get bumped to some consulting position and they will have Hale or Teufel or Backman take over. Assuming everything goes to plan, of course.

I’m sick of my user name, but I still think Terry’s served the Mets well enough, and was a good choice to replace Jerry.

 His ability as a manager: average, which means he’s not very good (Honestly, how many managers to do you think of as brilliant leaders who guide their men to victory? Mostly I remember them for being foolish and/or eccentric) , but still about as good as you could reasonably expect.

Since there was no way we were going to seriously contend this year, what’s more important was that culture-wise he be the anti-Jerry, to start the team on a fresh path under the new leadership. And on those terms, he seems to have succeeded admirably.

  He will be here for two or three years, possibly more if ‘rebuilding’ languishes on, and then hand the reins (and a much improved team) to someone who will hopefully be an above-average manager (but I’m not going to hold my breath, really).

I will say, though, that recently I have been especially frustrated with Collins for his frightening comments about player roles; like trying Beato as a starter, saying Murphy should be moved to the OF, asking Pelfrey if he’d want t be the closer (WTF?). But I still don’t think he’s done anything that’s close to a fireable offense.

Now Dan Warthen? I think we’ve seen enough of him to know that he is not going to cut it moving forward. Replace him.

Enough of that semi Dan Warthen and that clown of a trainer

If injuries are hindering TC, then they also hindered Jerry. That said, it did seem that Jerry had worn-out his welcome with the players near the end. Collins still seems to be liked by the players, so let’s keep him around.

Instead, can we change the training staff? Can we really believe that the Mets simply lucked-into consistently having the most fragile team in baseball? The training staff has to be held accountable. I’m all for hiring/keeping local guys, but Ray Ramirez has been head trainer since 2004. I would be curious to see how many games (something sort of like “man-hours lost”, i.e. – the number of injured players multiplied by the number of games missed by that group of players) have been lost to injury on his watch. I would not be surprised if the result was more than double the next closest injury-riddled team.