2013? Think 2012 Mets Fans
I think that most Mets fans can agree that the future of this team is bright. Mainly due to the large amount of high upside talent we now have in our system. This talent is projected to have an impact at the major league level around late 2012 and the beginning of 2013 at the latest. I however am taking a more optimistic and shorter term outlook for this team to have sustained success.
My plan hinges on a few transactions composed of a FA signing and a trade:
First being the issue of Mr. Jose. Obviously the future success of this team is highly correlated to Reyes' resigning, and his ensuing health status in the years to come. Reyes' market value has come down some from his astronomical MVP price. But he is STILL Jose Reyes and is one of the best players in the majors when he is healthy. I hope the Mets can sign him for a somewhat reasonable price, but all it takes is one crazy offer to pry him away. Teams lurking include anybody from the Angels, Giants and the Nationals. We would be somewhat lucky if we can get him around a 5 year $90 million deal.
The next issues to address on this team are an additional impact bat and a rotation arm. I still think we could really use another bat even if Reyes remains in NY. And i think it would be prudent to go after a top arm in FA for next year with the status of Johan still anything from certain. So the names I would look at to solve these two problems are CF Matt Kemp ans SP C.J. Wilson. The supporting material for each move:
Kemp will be a FA after the 2012 season, however that is no early enough for us to have him for next year. My reasoning that he would be available is twofold. One being that the Dodgers are in a tough financial spot (yes, worse than the Mets) and second I feel that the Dodgers will not be able to retain him after next season. So his would lead them to look to move Kemp for some rebuilding pieces. The Dodgers have stated that Kemp has not been available, and he is their only star aside from Kershaw, but I think they need to take a look at moving him for the right package. And I think the Mets would be able to put together that package necessary to get it done. The list of players from which a deal could be made would be Familia, Mejia, Flores, Lutz, Satin(not Stinson), Kirk, Den Decker, Pagan, Murphy, Pelfrey, Gee, Goeddel, Havens, Schwinden and a host of other youngsters. The deal would be centered around some of our top talent like Familia, Flores, Lutz and a ML ready pitcher in Pelfrey or Gee. This seems like it would be more than enough to get a deal done. This deal could take place over the winter meetings after this season. And since we gave up a large package for Kemp and would be a FA after the 2012 season, Sandy would need to resign him to a new deal, maybe in the Werth(less) range of 7 years $130 million. And this would be a deal that would pay large dividends since Kemp is still very young, will be 27 at next season's start, and is an MVP caliber player. Placing him in a lineup with our other deadly weapons of Wright, Reyes, Davis and Duda would present a very formidable offense.
The next move would be to go after CJ Wilson, who is this years top FA starter. This fact creates an issue since his price will be inflated due to the lack of other high end pitching available. I do not view him as an ace, even though he will be almost paid like one, but more of a really strong no. 2. Although he is leading the Rangers staff this season. Another issue is that it is going to to take a good amount of money to pry him away from a top team in the AL like the Rangers, and a team he really enjoys playing for. But if we were able to sign him he would present a really strong top of the rotation with Santana(if healthy). His deal would probably be somewhere in the 5-7 year and $100-130 million range. A Wilson signing is even more attractive because he will be 31 at the start of next year and has only been a starter for two years. This makes me feel that his arm is much fresher and would have more life than a starter who had been throwing for years, like Santana. Although it could be a little lower since Jered Weaver, a pitcher who I see as a superior and younger talent, signed a 5 year $85 million extension. But he took a hometown discount so I don't think we can count on such a small price for the premier FA starter. And a final reason why we shouldn't hesitate is that it looks like the Mets will finish with a bad enough record that our first round draft pick will be protected. So we will not lose the most important pick and will allow Sandy to fill our system with another high upside talent that was lost in the Kemp trade.
The only caveat that creates an issue in these transactions is it requires a large amount of money to be spent. And not to mention that Wright will be a FA after the 2013 season. And Johan could also be cut lose after 2013, which I think actually helps since that could free up cash since he should be expendable with our young pitchers filling in like Wheeler. And hopefully the Wilpons will open their wallets, ala Yankee fashion, since it looks like their lawsuit may be taking a beneficial turn. And Sandy can convince them to spend on a team that would be a winner and put butts in the seats for a full season and postseason.
I think the final and somewhat largest issue of this team, the bullpen, would be fixed from within and with a FA. Namely Josh Stinson and Brad Holt as possibilities.
So provided the chips fall our way we could be looking at a really special team for 2012. Some of the roster spots below could be altered depending on who would be included in the Kemp trade. I also see the possibility that Bay could be moved, if Sandy is really creative, although I doubt it is possible. So we would either have a cheap FA fill in for LF who would probably perform better than Bay or we would have the highest paid number eight hitter in history. So here we go, our 2012 champion NY Mets.
Batting first: Jose Reyes (SS), Daniel Murphy (2B), Matt Kemp (CF), Ike Davis (1B), David Wright (3B), Lucas Duda (RF), Josh Thole (C), Jason Bay/someone not named Bay (LF).
Rotation: Johan Santana (please be healthy), C.J Wilson, John Niese, R.A. Dickey, Matt Harvey.
That would be one scary lineup with few easy outs and very formidable power and great hitters 1-6. The rotation would also follow suit and be incredibly good. I take Gee and Pelfrey out since one could be traded and Harvey is obviously better than both. The reason I include Harvey is that he has the stuff to get major league hitters out and I feel he would be ready to take it to the another level next season. And I see no reason why he wouldn't be ready since we know he is a top talent and other young pitchers have been in the league after only shortened or no minor league experience like Porcello and Leake. I see him as having a body that can handle major innings and a much superior talent to those two mentioned starters.
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Two main qualms.
1. I think if the Dodgers were to trade one of their outfielders, it would be Ethier, not Kemp, though I doubt they trade either one. I bet those two are like Wright and Reyes to the Dodgers, as in they plan on building around them, not without them.
2. Unless Harvey has a crazy good spring, he probably starts the year in the minors. Actually, even if he does have a crazy good spring, I hope he starts the year in the minors. No need to rush him. Capuano would be more than acceptable as a fifth starter again next year.
cont.
3. Santana is by no means a safe bet for 200IP is 2012.
4. Wilpon’s are cutting payroll, likely regardless of the lawsuit and I don’t think it’s getting any better for them anyway. Alderson has said he’s not going to spend every penny of the allocated payroll anyway, and is likely going to go under budget in 2012.
It’s a nice idea but way too many things have to fall in to place and it looks like you haven’t accounted for role players and bullpen help. I think the best scenario for me is to sign Jose and trade Bay + parts for starting pitching (Peavy). If Sandy can pull these two things off and add some good role players and bullpen pieces I will consider the offseason a success.
on your first point
the Dodgers are also said to be higher on Kemp then Ethier, and Ethier is said to be very interested in becoming a FA some day
I LIKE IKE!
Way too much money.
Unfortunately we can’t spend that much as just signing Reyes will likely only leave us with just enough to round out a 25-man roster. The law suit may be looking better than it did in June, but that doesn’t mean it’s gone.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
Mets just recently lost a district court decision and the figure supposedly being thrown around now is $300 million.
Looking worse not better and this lawsuit may go on for years.
by Putnan Prince on Aug 25, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
300 million is better than 1 billion
I LIKE IKE!
Well, the math checks out.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Aug 25, 2011 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
2012
If they can’t sign Reyes, how about Rollins? As for Kemp and / or Ethier being unavailable, you can’t rule them out. I got blasted here on AA this offseason for suggesting trading Beltran for Rasmus due to the perception that the Cards would never dare part with him despite his problems with the Manager. I’ll bet a lot of responses to this post will be similar.
Rollins?????
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
god I hate him. I would rather have a whole there
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
by Rickfansince76 on Aug 24, 2011 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
.
Things I would rather have manning SS than Rollings:
1: Reyes
2: Tejada
3: Valdespin
4: Duda
5: My mother
6: Your mother
7: Argenis Reyes
8: Al Reyes
9: Dennys Reyes
10: Jo-Jo Reyes
11 A tree stump
12: A moderately sized rock
13: Satan
14. Nobody
19. “Scrubs” actress Judy Reyes
2,464,195,387. Bin Laden’s corpse
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
by Ogre39666 on Aug 24, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 11 recs
and
she is a total babe
"You're boring. You probably don’t even drink beer while you watch baseball."
by WinstonSmith on Aug 24, 2011 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Why is Jimmy Rollins #13 on this list?
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Aug 25, 2011 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I thought that was Dicktorino
Kicking knowledge in the face.
by BlackOps on Aug 25, 2011 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
How big a tree stump?
Could have better range than Jeff Kent if it’s substantial
I believe in one Dickey, Maker of knuckles and balls
by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Sep 2, 2011 7:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Rollins?
I have no words.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Aug 24, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
He's pretty decent as far as shortstops go
But yeah, it will never and should never happen
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2011 Mets- Rock bottom: We haven't reached it yet
Murphy back in LF
I think Turner could improve next season. hey he is a rookie.
Murphy has a great bat and needs to be in lineup…we lose on the fielding, have to admit Bay does pretty good in field.
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
Where do you put Bay?
And more importantly, have you seen Murphy out in LF?
Beruit?
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Aug 24, 2011 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Justin Turner is a 25 year old rookie who doesn't have any plus tools
He’s not good, he’s AAA fodder. Murphy can hit. He’ll have solid power for second base, should have a good batting average and above average OBP. I don’t think he’ll be a bad second baseman either. It’s not like Turner is some gold glover there himself, Murph wouldn’t be that big of a downgrade at second.
by Evan_S on Aug 24, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I'd rather see Murph at second
his bat plays better there and his defense would surely be better. Turner’s an okish bench player.
Murph playing 2nd,Perfect! What could possibly go wrong?
by Putnan Prince on Aug 25, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Turner playing second, perfect! What could possibly go wrong - besides his offense?
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
Defense hasn't been too shiny
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/12)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 26, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
You should think harder about *marginal* values
I sure hope the Mets aren’t going into this offseason with their primary goal being spending talent and dollars replacing Pagan — an underpaid and very good player. Upgrading the offensive value we get from left field, catcher, and the reserve infield spot(s) is way more important, because we’ll get more marginal wins per dollar/prospect. (And that’s to say nothing of pitching!)
Retaining Reyes is obviously goal #1, I agree with that much. But your 5/90 contract is pure fantasy.
This
Mets need to look to add wins where we are weak, not replace good players with stars for ridiculous money/prospects. I’ve watch terrible baseball for 3 years now, I can sit through another year or two if it means we come out with a young group of talented players and smart contracts for established stars, not $16 million for Jason Bay.
I think this would be adding to where we are weak
First comparing a player like Bay to Wilson and Kemp is incorrect. Those two guys are actual stars who will perform. Kemp has power for any park and Wilson is a certified ace pitcher. And Kemp is such a significant upgrade over Pagan its not even close. Kemp is better in every way and I am tired of Pagans inconsistent offensive production and terrible mistakes in the field and on the bases.
So the problem is that you don't understand Pagan's true value, then.
by anonymous on Aug 24, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No not really
What is it then? An occasional big hit with some stolen bases thrown in. A few good catcher per game. A constant showing of mental mistakes on the bases and in the field. No matter what Pagan provides in the field, I would much rather have a perennial all star who could hit three run bombs instead of a ground out rbi. Pagan has no value when compared to what Kemp provides at all. And as i posted below Kemp has been miles ahead of Pagan in WAR this year and he actually is having a better defensive year too.
Pagan has surpluss value (WAR compared to his salary).
Kemp would not.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
He never has.
In most of his “GM” posts he is getting rid of Pagan.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
Last year Angel Pagan more valuable compared to Matt Kemp (5.4 to 0.3) than Kemp over Pagan this season (6.1 to 1.2).
Next year I bet Pagan is about a 2.5, 3 WAR player, Kemp 4.5, 5 WAR player
by Evan_S on Aug 24, 2011 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
This is a meh idea
I am also not thrilled with the idea of spending big bucks on free agents, this team isn’t going anywhere in 2012 either. I’d work on trying to dump Nay, (please dear Baseball Gods, please), re-signing Jose Reyes and seeing which rookies pan out in the long run.
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
Yes they can go really somehwere in 2012 if we made moves like this
And the spending of this FA money would be well worth it. This team can’t sit and wait around for our young players to develop while Reyes, Wright and Santana are all wasting their talents on terrible teams. Especially when we have these guys in their primes on the next three years. (Not Santana in his prime obviously) I would love to get rid of Bay also but its just such a long shot. If we added another offensive force, and one of the best in the NL at that, our lineup would be solidified with a great and talented mix of vets and youngins. And Wilson would settle our rotation issues and gives us a legit 1-2. He would also provide much needed insurance in case of Santana not being ready or back to form. Nah mean
You don't pay a 31 year old starter 100 million dollars when you have money issue
Certainly one who’s not a star.
by Evan_S on Aug 24, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And Jon Niese is just as good as Wilson
by Evan_S on Aug 24, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Niese just as good as Wilson?
Not even close
Well, who can argue with proof like that?
It’s much closer than you think
Wilson: 181 Inn, 163 K, 61 BB. 8.1 K/9, 3.03 BB/9, 3.07 FIP, 3.43 xFIP, 4.8 WAR.
Niese: 157.3 Inn, 138 K, 44 BB, 7.89 K/9, 2.52 BB/9, 3.35 FIP, 3.23 xFIP, 2.8 WAR
Also, Wilson’s a soon-to-be-31-year-old who’s about to hit FA. Niese will end this season with barely 2 years of service time, and won’t even be arb-eligible until 2013. Being much younger, Niese is far more likely to improve next season than Wilson is, and at a fraction of the cost.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Aug 25, 2011 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions 9 recs
ohhhhhhhhhhhh so this is why
good GMs use stats.
by cntrlalt on Aug 25, 2011 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would obviously take Niese over Wilson
green’d
I LIKE IKE!
by astromets on Aug 25, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
But but but
TomCarvel says “not even close”. I guess we should listen to him, right?
There’s an old saying that goes " the grass is always greener on the other side". For our purposes, Jon Niese is our beautifully manicured lawn that, to our eyes, looks okay but we notice the few dead spots since we are watching it up close. From our side of the street, CJ Wilson (the lawn across the street) looks even better than ours. It looks to be a vibrant green, no weeds and you see no dead spots. But up close? They’re about the same.
Not to say Wilson’s bad, because he isn’t…for the right price, I’d love to have him on our pitching staff. But Niese is a lot closer to Wilson than you think and is 7 years younger to boot. It’s just that we know all of Niese’s warts from watching him up close, so we take him for granted.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Aug 25, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Hear that
First, your sarcasm is much appreciated. But just one observation about taking Niese over Wilson. Niese is much younger than Wilson and will obviously be cheaper. The thing about being a younger pitcher however is that he does not have as much experience and moxie as Wilson. So therefore I would put Wilson ahead of Niese at this point in their careers.
I have nothing against Niese, I really like him and think he has no. 2-3 upside. But it is obvious that this team needs another arm that can give consistent good innings and provide some insurance for Johan next year.
Wilson could cost a good amount but good FA pitching always does. If we could get him for 5 years and $70 million I think that would be a good deal. That’s all.
You can have experience and moxie
I’ll take the extra $20M and acquire several players who can help be they FA’s, draft picks, or IFA’s.
And I understand that his reliever-past means he has less mileage on his arm, but the dude is still 31. For him to be worth his contract at 35 and 36 (assuming your proposed 5-year deal) means he’ll have to be immune to age-related deterioration and that’s unlikely.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
by Ogre39666 on Aug 26, 2011 2:35 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
experience and moxie
are not worth 70 million dollars.
by cntrlalt on Aug 26, 2011 5:59 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
similar contracts?
can anyone reference similar contracts to similar pitchers in the past few seasons? and what the outcome was? i don’t really know where to find that kind of info, but I’d be interested to see
"You're boring. You probably don’t even drink beer while you watch baseball."
by WinstonSmith on Aug 26, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sorry.
I’m fluent in sarcasm…I just need to stretch the muscles every now and again.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Aug 26, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
5 and $70?
Up top, you predict that Wilson will be getting 5-7 years, and $100-130 million. How’d he drop from a $20 million/year to $14?
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Aug 26, 2011 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
we've recycled this before
signed Tom Glavine..Mike Hampton..Moises Alou, etc. come on, when does the revolving doors end? Yes it got the Mets into the playoffs but at what final result?
I suppose you’re telling me next we should trade for Francisco Liriano to be our next ace, or whatever.
CJ Wilson isn’t an Ace in my books, he is a very very good pitcher no doubt, but he is not worth a 5 year contract worth $60M or more.
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Aug 25, 2011 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions
ok ok traded for Mike Hampton, sorry
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Aug 25, 2011 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Fausto Carmona, baby!
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/12)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 26, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
good lord no.
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Aug 26, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
Funny joke.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Aug 26, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
That's way too many things that would have to go perfectly just to make next year a contender
I am happy with having 2012 be another rebuilding year, hopefully more successful than this one, but the team will still have some glaring flaws. I do hope that Sandy finds us a good starting pitcher somehow for next year, though.
Santana is probably never going to pitch a full season of baseball again, and he’s never going to be as good as he was.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf. "
– Tug McGraw when asked about his preference for grass or astroturf
Mets are unfortunately a collection of flawed players.
by Putnan Prince on Aug 25, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn!
When will Sandy begin signing those perfect players all the other teams have?!
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Aug 25, 2011 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
#FireSandyAlderson
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/12)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 26, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
#HireOmarMinaya
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Aug 26, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the Mets do actually have enough minor league depth to trade for a star like Kemp
However if we are going to splurge on a top SP I would rather go after CC Sabathia than CJ Wilson. No way am I going to give $130 million over 7 years to a 31 year old who has only started for 2 years. There just isn’t enough of a track record. However if we could get Wilson for a reasonable price I would love to have him. I think he is a great pitcher, and if he could pitch as well as he has in the bandbox that is Rangers Park, just imagine how well he would pitch in the spacious Citi Field.
Bobby Baseball - The future of Amazin' Avenue.
by Bobby Baseball on Aug 24, 2011 10:49 AM EDT reply actions
This.
He’s terrible in centerfield. People would be pining for Angel Pagan after watching Kemp play center.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Aug 24, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Yea but Kemp'e value overall provides so much more than just Pagan's defense.
Just look at the stark difference from this year where Pagan has a 0.6 overall WAR and a -0.9 dWAR. And look at Kemp’s shiny 7.5 overall WAR and 0.7 dWAR. Not even close in comparison. Kemp is actually having a better defensive season that Pagan this year. And frankly I really don’t care if Pagan is a good fielder. Because Kemp is a much better player by leaps and bounds. His offense more than makes up for whatever lack of defensive prowess he has.
And then add in the differences in contracts.
Pagan will make maybe 5M for one year, while Kemp will be owed well over 100M for 7 years, on a contract that this team likely CANNOT AFFORD? Blech…no thanks. Why not just wait a year and try to sign Kemp on the free agent market so you don’t have to give up the prospects?
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Aug 24, 2011 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
because most fans are impatient with the grief we have endured
seeing the filthies “succeed” and the Skankees doesn’t help.
But, I’d rather build a dynasty or at least a competitive team year in and year out rather than re-hash the old Omar and Steve Phillips style of 3-year success.
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Aug 25, 2011 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions
oops I cut off my own sentence before I finished it
But, I’d rather build a dynasty or at least a competitive team year in and year out rather than re-hash the old Omar and Steve Phillips style of 3-year success RUN. sorry
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Aug 25, 2011 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Correction
Hisoffenseunsustainable, high BABIP more than makes up for whatever lack of defensive prowess he has.
Am I the only one content in letting our big contracts run out before we start adding new ones?
It’s hard to win anything when you have a black hole like Jason Bay in the outfield. He has an almost immovable contract, and isn’t producing. With two years left, he’s going to be playing in 2012, but Alderson may release him in 2013 the way he did with Castillo and Perez this season. As long as he’s out there everyday with a 90 wRC+, it’s going to hurt the team. Let Duda play, let Pagan play, let Murphy play second and see what we have in the minors. It makes no sense to trade our high ceiling prospects right now for a team toiling in mediocrity. Do Kemp and Wilson make us better than the Phillies and Braves? If not, it’s not worth it. We have a lot of guys coming off of injuries, a star player who has looked less and less like a star each of the past 3 seasons, and a few young guys who we still don’t know what we have in them. If you really wanna go for it all next season, put Ike in right field, Duda in left, sign Pujols and pray everyone is healthy and has a career year.
by Evan_S on Aug 24, 2011 11:19 AM EDT reply actions 6 recs
Agreed with this
and I definitely want to see Bay removed somehow.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf. "
– Tug McGraw when asked about his preference for grass or astroturf
by Terry_is_God on Aug 24, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
release him
Bobby Baseball - The future of Amazin' Avenue.
by Bobby Baseball on Aug 24, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
And tell Pagan to run for every fly ball like his life depends on it
Ike in right field in Citi Field might result in a new record for triples/inside-the-parkers allowed.
Benching or cutting Bay seems to be the only way the Mets can move forward at this point. There’s just nowhere else to find the wins. Pitching and a solution to Bay (whatever it is) need to be the second and third priorities (after Reyes) this offseason.
yeah I missed the Ike in RF suggestion.. that would make little sense even if Ike's ankle was not an issue
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf. "
– Tug McGraw when asked about his preference for grass or astroturf
by Terry_is_God on Aug 24, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
It makes plenty of sense
what would you do, put Pujols in left field? Maybe put him at shortstop and put Reyes in RF? If you get Pujols moving Ike to the OF is the only move.
Pujols at third base!
Traid David Wrongz!
Bobby Baseball - The future of Amazin' Avenue.
by Bobby Baseball on Aug 24, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, in that last line I was mostly saying if we're gonna try and win it all next season, we should try for Pujols
And I’d bet Pujols more than makes up for the horrid outfield defense anyway. I wasn’t being serious
Lol no on Pujols whatsoever
You are talking about bad contracts like Bay, Pujols would be an even bigger albatross. And those defensive moves would just cripple any defensive edge provided by anyone. Aside from Pujols, there is nothing wrong with signing people to large contracts. We are a large market team and should act like it. It seems to work pretty well for Boston, Yankees and the Phillies who are competing year after year and they spends loads of money. The problem with the Mets is that we have spent the dollars we allocated in terrible places in the past on Bay and Perez because of terrible management. Signing premier talent like Wilson and Kemp is the kind of moves that winning teams like the three mentioned make. All of those teams have at least four large deals on their books and are all spent on good talent. For next year we would have three large deals on good players, Wright, Reyes and Santana. Bay is just a terrible waste of money on a horrible player. He is now a sunk cost and should be moved even if we have to pay up to 75% of his deal.
Pujols is in by far the worst season of his career and he's still probably going to be a 5 win player
Whatever contract he gets he won’t be worth it, but I would bet money Pujols is more than Kemp and Wilson combined over the next decade.
Why is Kemp such a sure thing?
He’s having a BABIP fueled offensive season. He’s gonna get Beltran money and he’s not half the player Beltran was. He’s a terrible center fielder and is having a career year. You don’t judge a player by their best seasons. There’s no reason to think Kemp replicates this next year.
REC 1000x Evan_S
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Aug 25, 2011 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Too many problems. Way too many problems
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 24, 2011 12:12 PM EDT reply actions
This is a nice fantasy but
there’s no way it’s happening. First off, I wouldn’t want to deal all those prospects for a free agent bound Kemp and then have to sign him to a mega-deal. I’d much rather keep Familia and hope that he turns into a solid starter. And even if we got Kemp, no way do I play him in CF. Pagan’s easily the better defender out there.
Secondly, I like CJ Wilson but 7 years and over 100 million is lunacy for a 31 year old pitcher, regardless of how long he’s been a starter. If he would take 3 or 4 years, I’d certainly be interested but anything longer than that is way too risky in my opinion, especially for a pitcher who’s not a bonafide number one starter.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Aug 24, 2011 12:30 PM EDT reply actions
Haven't followed Kemp's defense but if he is worse than Angel (wrong way) Pagan who can''t throw near where he's aiming
and takes wrong angles on way too many balls,then I don’t want Kemp.
by Putnan Prince on Aug 25, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Pagan has one bad defensive season and he's a bad defender?
He was fantastic last season and in 09. He’ll be fine in center next year.
Hope he is but if you've been watching Pagan this season in CF you would have to rate him below average.Played
well in 2010 but has clearly regressed this season with his defense(everyone is running on him)and his throws are wild and frequently to the wrong base Angel’s baserunning this season has been woeful and is pointed out by Keith and the crew.Just seems like he loses concentration a lot.Has the talent but??
by Putnan Prince on Aug 25, 2011 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Question is do baseball instincts bounce back?
by Putnan Prince on Aug 26, 2011 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I think the actual question is "do baseball instincts exist?"
Or perhaps “why should anyone believe that your assessment of baseball instincts is objectively true”?
by anonymous on Aug 26, 2011 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I am very much looking forward to the
AAOP contest this year
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Like the really funny uncle with a healthy bourbon habit who matches every brilliant Thanksgiving story with one or two ill-advised racist jokes or boob grabs, we’re stuck with Melo. So we might as well learn to love him — quirks and all. http://knickerblogger.net/2011-report-card-carmelo-anthony/
Me too
Watch me blow the farm on 3 superstars and find a way to sign CC and Pujols!
Bobby Baseball - The future of Amazin' Avenue.
by Bobby Baseball on Aug 24, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
BRADEN WEB AND BEN SHITS ARE ALSO FREE AGENTS
OUR ROTATION CAN BE:
YOHAN SANTANA
CC SABATHIER
BRADEN WEB
BEN SHITS
RA DICKE
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 453 posts (10/03/10)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 24, 2011 7:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 13 recs
no no that's Big Licker...he's the ASS
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Aug 25, 2011 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I think I got it. How 'bout this? How 'bout this?
We trade Jim Leyritz and Bernie Williams, for Barry Bonds, huh? Whadda ya think?
That way you have Griffey and Bonds, in the same outfield! Now you got
a team! Ha ha ha.
I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."
Like the really funny uncle with a healthy bourbon habit who matches every brilliant Thanksgiving story with one or two ill-advised racist jokes or boob grabs, we’re stuck with Melo. So we might as well learn to love him — quirks and all. http://knickerblogger.net/2011-report-card-carmelo-anthony/
by gbaked on Aug 25, 2011 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
hahahaha that gets a rec gbaked
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Aug 25, 2011 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
DUDE THAT IS A HORRABLE IKEA
JIM LAYRITS IS A GOOD KECHER PLUS HE PLAYS THE GAME THE RITE WAY. AND BERNEE WILLIMS SHOULD BE IN THE HALLS OF FAME. BARRY BONDS IS A CHEETAH AND DID STEROYDS AND A SISSY.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/12)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 26, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
And he looked like this in high school!

Bobby Baseball - The future of Amazin' Avenue.
by Bobby Baseball on Aug 26, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Jheri Curl
Is not a performance enhancing drug
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
Win Now?
“Win now” moves are why we’re a terrible team in the first place. Forget about winning in 2012. Keep developing cheap, cost-controlled pieces, and when you’re on the verge of contending, THEN make moves for other franchise-type players. No big FA signings, no system-gutting trades for star players who are supposedly going to allow us to contend. We’re miles behind the Phillies and Braves. We need to be patient.
by SilverLaker on Aug 24, 2011 3:05 PM EDT reply actions 7 recs
Unfortunately a team in N.Y. does not have that luxury.
by Putnan Prince on Aug 25, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
yes they do
what the hell makes new yorkers so special that they can never be in a rebuilding mode? Obviously, not rebuilding does not work out
I LIKE IKE!
by astromets on Aug 25, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
a team in new york has the luxury of rebuilding while also fielding a competitive team
under a competent general manager that places emphasis on the draft to restock young talent, while also utilizing a big market club’s ability to sign free agents.
unfortunately, what we’ve seen mostly is the exact opposite; gutting the system while acquiring bad free agent deals.
i’ll take a couple years of ~.500ish ball while rebuilding, fans of the pirates, reds and indians would love to be in our position.
by cntrlalt on Aug 26, 2011 6:03 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Who needs an offseason plan anyway?
We already traded Beltran. As long as we don’t resign Reyass we’ll be golden.
P.S. How do I do that sarcasm font thing?
by Ryan_86 on Aug 25, 2011 12:30 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
@like this@
It won’t work in titles, only in the body of the post. See?
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Aug 25, 2011 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm looking forward to seeing what Familia, Harvey and Meija can do to help this club
in 2012 and the open audition for guys like Satin, Lutz, Valdespin Lagares Lujan and Thayer So please no more big contracts for a couple of years,(with the exception of Reyes) since I am now at peace with the prospect of remaining in 4th place until 2013/14.
My two wishes
Are that we keep Reyes and get rid of Bay. The first wish to keep Reyes is obvious, he’s an awesome player. The second wish should also be obvious, Bay sucks. The compounding effect, though, is that he is/will be log jamming the one area where we have a lot of guys who could make a difference: outfield.
Anything involving big contracts (Reyes aside) and trades are unnecessary at this time.
The only big contract I would consider other than Reyes is Darvish
by Evan_S on Aug 25, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Absolutely
There is a huge difference between signing a 25 year old pitcher to long term contract, and signing a 31 year old.
__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden
Agreed totally on the wish list and on keeping away from big contracts.
If somehow they could end up with CJ Wilson on a 3 or 4 year deal (unlikely, I know) then I’d be okay with that, but aside from Reyes, this team doesn’t need to be adding mega deals anymore (especially coupled with trading talent from the system).
Now that being said, I’m okay with trades for the most part. If there’s somebody available who’s not too expensive, not too close to free agency and will help fill a hole on this club, then by all means Sandy should go for it. Personally, I was hoping we’d jump in on Colby Rasmus, especially if the price was discounted. That could’ve been an excellent way to pick up a young, cheap role player who wouldn’t normally be available. Unfortunately we didn’t have an Edwin Jackson type pitcher to give up, so it didn’t work out but my point is, if there’s an upgrade available on the trade market, I’d like to see Sandy go for it as long as it doesn’t cost the entire farm or a ton of money (both of which Kemp would).
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Aug 25, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
sorry to be so ...douchey, but I just
don’t get the love for Edwin Jackson, the guy is an okay pitcher that’s all. We already have a type like that: he’s called Mike Pelfrey. Mets fans will tire of Jackson’s erratic qualities very quickly.
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Aug 25, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I get it
dude throws heat and can spin the ball, only thing I can’t figure out is why he hasn’t figured it out. I really wish Mike Pelfrey was Edwin Jackson instead
Kicking knowledge in the face.
Same
Jackson is kind of like Mike Pelfrey’s ceiling.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/12)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 26, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
He's not an ace but
he’s a pretty solid 2 or 3 starter. He was worth 3.5 fWAR in 09, 3.8 last year and 2.8 this year. His ERAs have been a bit inflated but his FIP dropped below 4.00 for the second year in a row. He’s easily a better pitcher than Pelfrey…he walks around the same amount of batters but strikes out more and gets grounders at around the same rate Pelfrey does.
I wouldn’t sign Jackson longterm but he’s certainly not a bad mid-rotation option for a contender at this point.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Aug 25, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
And no problem, Fes.
I didn’t take that as douchey at all.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Aug 25, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
hahaha, thanks you're very kind Mistermet.
well, I guess, but I am suspicious of players like Mr. Jackson.
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Aug 25, 2011 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe some kind of trade could be worked out with the Cubs for Jason Bay.Jason would hit there and would find
the dimensions more suited for his power.Mets eat 1/2 of his salary and try to get a useful player in return.It’s an option Sandy should explore and Jason would approve it in a second.Maybe the Cubs can get him to move closer to the fluckin’ plate
Except all the Cubs have to offer is shitty contracts
like Zambrano or Soriano. I’d rather have Bay than either of them.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Aug 25, 2011 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions
They haven't got any.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Aug 26, 2011 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah and for that reason they treasure Starlin Castro like a god
I’m not sure if they would even trade him for a new Albert Pujols contract
Bobby Baseball - The future of Amazin' Avenue.
by Bobby Baseball on Aug 28, 2011 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't fully get the love
Yes, he’s only going to be 22 next year when the season begins, and he’s going to fill in and whatnot, but hitting .303/.339/.419 over two years with a highish BABIP that can come down (though he had a highish BABIP in the Minors, too) with the generally bad defense he’s shown thus far isn’t exactly super-MVP territory. I mean, I’d love to have him on my team, sure, but a 2.1 WAR and a 2.6 WAR (so far) season isn’t amazingly amazing.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/12)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 28, 2011 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Because if he turns out good
then the Cubs can say they raised a player who turned out good
Bobby Baseball - The future of Amazin' Avenue.
by Bobby Baseball on Aug 29, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Um
do you remember what Jose Reyes was like the first few seasons of his career? Castro’s first few seasons look pretty much identical, probably better.
Kicking knowledge in the face.
I don't think we generally treated him as if he could do no wrong
I know, I remember being excited when he was here, but wished he’d play better defense (he was at second, though) and wish he’d have more power. I don’t know many Cubs fans, but based on the way the media treats him (defense notwithstanding since Bobby V chewed him out on ESPN), it’s as if he has no flaws, and is an MVP candidate. He’s good, and is probably going to bulk up as he ages and add to his power, but throw in some more slugging, and he’s still a 4.0 to 5.0 WAR player- a guy I wouldn’t mind having, but not a worldbreaker like he’s portrayed.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 29, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I've never heard anyone consider him an MVP candidate.
He’s a solid, young shortstop with a lot of upside. He plays a position where there’s a dearth of talent. He’s also hit over .300 in his two seasons now, which has a lot of weight with the MSM.
He’s only 21 though. Considering his already solid contact skills and the fact that he still has some room to gain muscle, he could be something special. I’d give a lot to get him on my team (that is, if my team didn’t already have Jose Reyes, of course).
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Aug 29, 2011 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Listening to MLB Network, you'd think he was Albert Pujols' younger, better brother
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 29, 2011 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions
He isn't?
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 30, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
half right
I would not go for CJ Wilson (feels too much like John Lackey or a dozen others), but am intrigued by the Kemp trade idea. If we can couple that with an off-season Bay for Peavy trade, we may have something.
Peavy, Niese, Gee, Dickey, Capuano (and Santana maybe?); Parnell, Beato, Acosto in the pen; Harvey, Wheeler, Mejia (Familia likely going to LA in the Kemp trade) in the minors for the first available slot from injury.
Reyes, Pagan (CF), Kemp (RF), Wright, Duda (LF), Davis, 2B (Murphy, Turner, Tejada, Valdespin), Thole.

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