A Park Too Far
It appears that the Mets will finally acquiesce to Chipper Jones' demands and change the dimensions of CitiField, perhaps as early as next season. The complaints about its spacious contours bubbled up almost immediately after it opened in 2009, and have continued unabated ever since. Last week, the clearest indication yet came that the team would actually do something about the perceived problem. Granted, those clear indications came from an unnamed "high-ranking Mets official," but as of yet, no less anonymous Met official has disputed this report.
There are some obvious benefits to doing this, the two biggest being David Wright and Jason Bay, who have both seen their longball totals plummet at the new ballpark, even if Wright has suffered some freak injuries the past few years and Bay often looks lost without a map no matter where he's hitting. Case in point: During Sunday's game against Milwaukee, after Lucas Duda's two-run homer tied things up, Bay hit a booming shot to left-center that would have gone out of virtually any other ballpark, but at CitiFeild could only bank high off the Great Wall of Flushing for a double. His teammates failed to drive him in, and the Mets went on to lose 6-2. (The bullpen would probably have found another way to blow this game anyway, but still.)
Personally, I'm not opposed to changing the dimensions per se. The left field fence has always struck me as far too tall, and the jagged dimensions of the Mo Zone in right field are artificially cute at the expense of providing a power porch for lefty batters. But I also think that home runs should be kind of hard to hit. And while I doubt any changes to CitiField will make it Citizen's Bank Park East, I wonder if the criticism of its dimensions is motivated less by a sense of fairness than it is of what we've come to expect of the game of baseball, even in the quote-unquote post-steroid era.
I think we can all agree that home runs are awesome. Home runs are pretty much the coolest thing a guy can do all by himself for a professional sports team--perhaps neck and neck with the slam dunk, depending on what you're into. That's why "home run" is a by-word for "immense success" in every conceivable human endeavor (in this country, anyway). You hit a ball over the wall and everyone has to watch you run the bases, whether they like it or not. That is the definition of power.
Problem is, throughout the 1990s and well into the 2000s, the home run grew in abundance to ridiculous proportions, to the point that people expect it rather than appreciate it. There were a multitude of reasons for this, and PEDs were just one factor. There were many new ballparks built, most of which were hitter friendly than the multipurpose carpet-and-concrete bowls they replaced. (One of the few that wasn't, Comerica Park, was shamed into altering its dimensions by the gripes of many Tigers, including free-agent bust Juan Gonzalez.) Four new expansion teams appeared, which diluted the overall quality of pitching. An acceptance of bodybuilding, which baseball players formerly shunned, was definitely a contributor (steroid aided or not). And though the evidence to support it is circumstantial at best, it is at least possible that MLB deliberately "juiced" the ball for a time.
Whatever the cause(s), guys were suddenly going yard at a rate hitherto unheard of in baseball history. I would compare the effect this had on baseball fans to the changes in people's eating habits over the last 50 years or so. Once upon a time, a sandwich, all on its own, was a perfectly acceptable lunch. Now, many people expect that sandwich to be footlong and accompanied by potato chips and an enormous soda--and to eat this every day. Once people get used to having a lot of something--no matter how artificial or bad for you it might be--it's hard to get them to scale back.
In my studies of the 1999 and 2000 Mets, I've gone back and read tons of newspaper and magazine articles from this period. What I notice in this coverage is an almost spoiled giddiness about the offensive explosion they're witnessing. In covering the prodigious blasts they saw night after night, most reporters wrote like kids gorging on Halloween candy, tearing through one treat just so they can eat the next one sooner. The idea that the "event" of the home run was lessened by having so many of them never occurred to anyone. If it did, nobody bothered to write about it.
The feeling was even more pronounced when Mark McGwire or Sammy Sosa visited Shea; looking at the reverence afforded to both players by the press, you'd think they were war heroes rather than guys who hit baseballs. Their 1998 "home run chase" was still seen as something that saved baseball, post-strike, and most writers were perfectly happy to play along with that storyline (until they were later told to switch gears and inform us that Sosa and McGwire ruined the game).
This era may seem like a long time ago, and in our accelerated culture, I suppose it is. But we all lived through it, and fans are still affected by The Age of The Routine 17-13 Score. It would probably surprise most fans to learn that CitiField's park factor is exactly in the middle of the pack when it comes to runs scored (0.974, 16th overall), because we have come to associate offense itself with how many home runs a team hits. It might also surprise them to learn that CitiField is not at the bottom when it comes to homers, but at #23, slightly ahead of Sun Life Stadium, an even more spacious park where the Marlins' young sluggers seem to have no trouble going deep.
There's also the possibility that the stress over CitiField's dimensions is just misplaced frustration with how terrible the team has been since the place opened, and how poorly the previous front office planned to build a team for such a ballpark. As for me, I actually feel a certain sense of justice when I see a ball bank off the wall, or a fly ball get tracked down 420 feet away in right-center, as if this is making up for all those years of moonshots, or all the line drive 300-foot "home runs" hit up in the Bronx. It's a reminder that when home runs are difficult to hit, the ones we see are that much more amazing.
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Might as well bring the walls in
the pitching staff certainly can’t take advantage of a pitchers’ park. Slugfests man, 10-8 ballgames. Do it.
I'm with you, MC.
Good analysis. Home runs should be special, not commonplace.
Nothing was worse than going to a Tigers/Yankees game at Yankee Stadum 3 (aka the Big Wiffle Ball Park in the Bronx) in which six home runs were hit.
Build a better team, with better hitters and better pitchers, and people will stop whining.
We've got ourselves a ball club, the Mets of New York town!
Good post.
This in particular:
“There’s also the possibility that the stress over CitiField’s dimensions is just misplaced frustration with how terrible the team has been since the place opened, and how poorly the previous front office planned to build a team for such a ballpark.”
Amen. If we were winning, this would not be considered an issue. Moving walls around is classic desperation, and I hoped the Alderson regime was immune to that sort of silliness.
More a certainty than a possibility, it seems to me
It’s easier to blame the park than the team for their total lack of power.
Yes not hitting HRs is frustrating and moving the fences could be seen as desperate.
but just look at how it effects the team. This isn’t the first year and that we just have to wait for them to adjust. This park kills right handed power and what is worse is that it seems that the players take their troubles with them on the road. Now granted, the Mets teams that have played in Citi Field aren’t made up of all stars but if free agents see how playing here ruins power numbers than they are not going to want to play for the Mets. You could argue well maybe then pitchers would want to come here and play right? Well so far no and our pitchers aren’t exactly losing 2-1 games like in SF. I say make the changes just so you don’t drive away our favorite players and make Citi Field more appealing for free agents to want to come here.
The team doesn't hit a lot of home runs
But look at all the actual runs themselves being scored by this team? At home and on the road. The problem this year has been pitching, and overall defense, more than it has been the offense. We have hitters that know how to get the job done, home run or not. Add that to the fact we have some real left handed power on the team in Ike (hoping he recovers smoothly) and now Duda. I think the team is coming into a mold that fits Citi real well. The problem has been pitching, somewhat in the starting rotation, but mostly the bullpen. Even last year, when the pitching was making good use of the home park, the road ERA was atrocious. So I can’t really agree that the walls need to be moved in. When you get a good hold of one, the ball goes out. Also, Citi Field is like middle of the pack in terms of home runs. It’s not like it’s an extreme case where power is absolutely sapped with the dimensions as is.
"When you get a good hold of one, the ball goes out." Not necessarily, and it depends on what one would consider "fair" or "crushed".
A guy can crush a ball 420ft and be caught in right center or turn into a double because it was hit 10ft high in the left field wall (instead of 20ft high).
According to ESPN park factors, Citi Field is bottom 8 (2011) and bottom 4 (2010) in HR’s. Statcorner also indicate a below 100 park factor for HR. How difficult should HR’s be? The stadium redesign can allow anything they want.
I still have doubts about “building a team to fit the ballpark”, or at what extent does that carry to roster construction. If the park induces triples, should the team sign players who have that feature or just go for the “best overall player”.
Also, it doesn’t look all that clear what impact does the home stadium has on a player. There was a study about Matt Holliday playing in Colorado/Oakland and when the team went on a road trips, his home road splits started high in the first series but went on to reduce the difference as he played more games.
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My problem with building a team to fit the ballpark
Is that that same team has to play half its games in other ballparks. Including the playoffs.
So what?
You’re telling me a team built around high OBP and speed will only fair well in bigger ball parks? If anything playing in a small park would be even better because the average to below average power wouldn’t hurt as much and their OBP and speed ability would still be good.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
Pretty sure free-agents aren't flocking here...
because the team sucks.
The current dimensions work well for patient hitters who hit for contact, not for the bleachers. That works well with Sandy’s approach to building a roster, does it not?
Keith Hernandez, in his usual bursts of brilliance, was talking about this the other day during a Brewers game. If you have a unique ballpark, and build the team around it, your opponents will struggle and you’ll win games at home (something they’ve failed to do 35 times in 60 opportunities this season).
I would say bring the walls down
The walls don’t have to brought in but make all the walls the same height around the park, not only for home runs to be hit but for home runs to be robbed. I think most fans will agree with me that the most exciting play in recent Mets history was Endy making that amazing grab in the playoffs. People say the most exciting play in baseball is the triple, I say that it is the robbed home run is more exciting and there is barely any chance for that to happen. That wall just makes no fucking sense to be that high, yes Fenway has one but I think that was because the park had to be shoehorned into a small area, also it is 315ft to the wall not 335ft. It makes a difference. I have no real problem with the dimensions of the park because lefties can hit it out but that wall has to be lowered.
by Shinjo Is God on Aug 25, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed in this sense...
I like lowering the Great Wall of Flushing b/c it takes away HRs on balls that were crushed. Bay’s shot goes out in almost any other park. I personally don’t care one way or the other about the Mo Zone. It probably disproportionately affects Wright, an important player but obviously just one.
As for the club’s offense, for most of the season it has been ship-shape—and that’s really with only one guy having an extraordinarily good year. The offense seems to be constructed the right way—lots of walks and gap-to-gap hitting. Citi Field sucks for David Wright but not for the offense as a whole. Defensively, we have some challenges. You really need better than average speed at all three spots. Pagan’s alright, though he hasn’t had the best defensive year by my eye. Bay is passable. RF has really not been a strength. I didn’t think Beltran was all that good and Duda isn’t saving many runs (again, by the naked eye).
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
I don't really think that
most Met fans (at least those visiting this site) want the walls moved because they “dig the long ball,” or whatever. So I think this is a bit of a straw-man argument. I personally want the walls moved/lowered for a couple of reasons:
(1) There’s at least anecdotal evidence that it’s messing with previously good home-run hitters, especially righties. And the fact that those hitters aren’t hitting homers (or as many homers) on the road would at least suggest that they may have permanently altered their hitting approach as a response to Citi, and that’s a really bad thing. I don’t disagree that part of the problem is simply that the team isn’t good, and have enough power hitters. But the fact that those power hitters we do have (and/or have brought in) have shown regression is disturbing enough to me. I know that it’s fashionable for analytical types to discount the psychological aspects of the game, but I have to believe that a certain amount of frustration sets in when balls that a hitter expects to leave the yard wind up being doubles or outs.
(2) In light of (1), I think that it’s not unreasonable to assume that a big-time hitter will, all other things being equal, think twice before signing with the Mets. Obviously, a lot more of that right now (aside from the team not having enough money) is due to the Mets not being very good, and winning cures all. But I don’t want to be at a disadvantage in the free agent market because of the park. (And yeah, in theory, I suppose we could have an advantage in terms of pitchers wanting to come here…but I guess I think the minuses are more likely to weight in the minds of free agents than the pluses.)
(3) The converse of (1), a big park could encourage bad habits by pitchers who “pitch to contact” and don’t expect fly balls to leave the yard. I suppose it’s only a really bad thing if they carry that on the road with them, but I guess I just don’t expect guys to have different approaches at home or on the road.
(4) It’s impossible to rob a homer in LF, and the wall in the Right-Center gap is so far you’re never going to see a home run robbed there either. That’s a really fun part of the game that’s taken away.
(5) The annoying angles, big wall, etc. add an element of randomness that winds up deciding games, which I don’t think is helpful in terms of evaluating the team. I guess that goes to the general “fairness” point. And I don’t think that these elements add anything positive whatsoever, so it’s not like we’re losing something by getting rid of them.
by dontstopbelieving on Aug 25, 2011 4:40 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
1) What power hitters do we have? Bay? Put him in any park and he has trouble. Wright? He was never a huge power threat.
2) That big-time hitter will think twice about signing with the Mets because they suck. If we’re a legit contender, I doubt he thinks too hard about the walls. And I also disagree about the minuses vs. the pluses thing because you’re only thinking of it through the hitters eyes. To pitchers, other parks have big minuses. So if your even if your theory is correct, Citi Field is still a draw to pitchers.
3) A strikeout pitcher won’t suddenly become a contact pitcher because his ballpark is big.
4) Agree.
5) Randomness decides every game. And as far as fairness goes, it’s the same park for both teams.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
Bay and Wright are absolutely power hitters.
Guys who can hit at least 30 home runs are power hitters, which both Bay and Wright have done multiple times in their respective careers. If they aren’t power hitters, then who exactly are power hitters?
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by Steve Schreiber on Aug 25, 2011 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
roids era seems to have confused people
he never hit 50. clearly a leadoff hitter
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by Cory Braiterman on Aug 25, 2011 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Wright was a power threat, but not an upper echelon one who are the players dontstopbelieving is discussing. He was among thirdbasemen, but not overall. Even if he was/is, okay, we have one.
And Bay was at one point, but is not any more. It wouldn’t matter if the was in Yankee Stadium, he’d have trouble hitting HR’s.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
dontstopbelieving specifically mentioned
with previously good home-run hitters
I think 2005-08 David Wright and prior to 2010 Jason Bay certainly fit the category of “good” home run hitters.
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by Steve Schreiber on Aug 25, 2011 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions
And that's ignoring the other 3 parts of his comment that are flawed.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
I really agree with your #1
aside from the others, which are valid. Your first point is exactly how feel, though. When a player says that they’ve gotten ahold of a ball and it dies out in the enormous 415 foot gap in RCF, how does that not frustrate the player? How does that not make him reconsider what he’s doing at the plate? What is a player like David Wright or Jason Bay or whoever supposed to do when his power alley is taken away from him? Is he supposed to keep driving the ball into the RCF gap and coming up short? No, that would be stupid on his part. Instead, he changes his swing and changes his approach to counteract what the stadium is taking away. Instead of hitting balls with power to the dead zone in RCF, he tries to pull more and turn around balls over the shorter left field, causing him pull out early and swing and miss more often. And since players can’t exactly change their approach from ballpark to ballpark, it sticks with them, causing a change in both the home and road abilities of the player.
I understand that the “human element” of the game is tough to account for but something like this is more common sense than anything. If you’re working on a construction job and your shovel breaks in half, do you continue continue working with your broken shovel? No…you adapt to the situation to the best of your ability and find a new shovel or a new tool to get the job done, even if that shovel is perhaps a little heavier than the one that you were used to using.
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by Steve Schreiber on Aug 25, 2011 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the dead zone has less to do with the wall demensions
and more to do with the flow of air. In Citi wind seems to go from RF to 3B. If there was a way they could eliminate that, then you’d probably see less fly balls die in that gap.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
If that's true that the jet stream blows inward
isn’t that more of a reason to bring that area in? Not only is the right center field gap 415 ft away, but hitters are also fighting an inward jet stream. That sounds pretty unfair to me…no wonder why so many balls die out there.
To me, it’s not about having a home run happy park. I like having a park that’s neutral. But I also want it to be fair for the players. I don’t want it screwing with the players’ totals and basically changing the paths of their careers. If a guy absolutely crushes a ball into the RCF gap, he should be rewarded with the ball going over the wall. Certainly not every time, but currently the way Citi Field is situated, way too many balls die in the gaps. While we don’t want too many home runs, I think we do want some.
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by Steve Schreiber on Aug 25, 2011 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Okay, but is that doable?
Is there a way to do that without completely restructuring the building? I kind of doubt it. It’s probably easier (not to mention cheaper) to move the walls in a bit (or lower them in the case of the left field wall) and you’ll still have the inward air current to knock some balls down, as opposed to the outward current that makes parks like Yankee Stadium and the Ballpark in Arlington the bandboxes that they are.
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by Steve Schreiber on Aug 25, 2011 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree
1) Maybe the previously good HR hitter just got worse. You could easily say that they are bad on the road supports that. People get worse and change. Maybe there is an effect, but there’s really very little evidence.
2) “And yeah, in theory, I suppose we could have an advantage in terms of pitchers wanting to come here…but I guess I think the minuses are more likely to weight in the minds of free agents than the pluses.)” Well I say I guess the plusses and minuses equal out. Unless you have some other reasoning.
3) Does a small park harm everyone too? Like the Phillies and Yankees? You could say a big park encourages strike throwing (less walks). Or they pitch normally and just get a bonus at home.
4) Maybe
5) I say I like the randomness and think it adds to the game. If anything it adds a home field advantage. I don’t think it really hurts in evaluation.
"a park too far"
are these your closing arguments? can you stop watching tv now and party down with P-Funk?
"they're still shitty"
Irony alert
"It’s very difficult to play here if you’re an offensive player," Terry Collins admitted today, before the Mets lost, 11-9, to the Milwaukee Brewers.
I want it to be similar to Shea
Shea was the perfect combination of fair to the pitchers and hitters, especially after they decreased the size of the foul areas.
What Would Matt Szczur Do?
Fact on Villanova Sports
Nail meet head:
There’s also the possibility that the stress over CitiField’s dimensions is just misplaced frustration with how terrible the team has been since the place opened
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
Speaking of home runs, the Yankees are currently beating the A's 22-9
and I think at least 6 home runs have been hit.
Nope.avi
This is lame
Not the article, the supposed plan to bring in the walls. I LIKE games that end 3-1 and I couldn’t give flying fuck if Jason Bay sucks an smidge more at home than he does on the road. He has 9 HRs. That’s terrible in the stadium-agnostic fashion possible.
Maybe the media should push for retractable walls, which move in for the mets and out for everyone else.
I'm perfectly happy with moving the walls in
unless we sign 4 more players like Reyes – speed demons who hit triples like they’re candy. In that case, shove the walls back – fuck em all.
Home runs are pretty much the coolest thing a guy can do all by himself for a professional sports team
Disagree, this is:

Especially the ending:

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Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Aug 25, 2011 7:26 PM EDT reply actions
Ugly sport played by equally ugly human beings
__________________________________________________________________
Really good kid.A very good player.Not a superstar. #BlameWilponz. Never Forget
by ScottfromPeekskill on Aug 25, 2011 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions
o_O
how white of you
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by Cory Braiterman on Aug 25, 2011 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey!
No child pornography!
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Aug 25, 2011 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha
Marshawn Lynch is a horrendous looking person

"..."
by Thaddeus Ballpheasant on Aug 26, 2011 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions
The fact that the stadium registered on the Richter scale is almost as cool as the run
As one of the two regular Seahawks fans who are also Mets fans and post at AA, this almost will make up for the 3-win season I’m staring in the face.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
i'm not even a seahawks fan
but that was absofuckinglutely ridiculous
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Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Aug 25, 2011 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
Was watching the game cause my uncle had it on and the whole room lost it. Coolest thing I’ve seen in a football game for awhile
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by blueandorange4life on Aug 25, 2011 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Andrew Luck should make you feel better.
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by Coolpapabell on Aug 26, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Saying there is a great moment from the NBA is like saying there is a pretty pig.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
I can understand making a cool goal in shootout being really exciting,
but I can’t figure out what is so exciting about a goalie stopping a puck.
Nope.avi
by NetsMets4Life on Aug 25, 2011 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
It's the equivilant of a HR robbing catch but better because goals are scarcer than runs.
The first link was to a 3-on-1 which morphs to a 2-0 where Ryan Miller stops the shot from going into the open net with the blade of his stick while sliding the other way. What’s not jaw-dropping about that?
The last link was to Mike Richter making a toe save while preforming a full split to stop the most dangerous scorer in the game at the time on a penalty shot in the Stanley Cup final. If you don’t know the circumstances it might not be as exciting but it’s still an amazing display of athleticism.
Goaltending is probably the hardest thing in sports besides maybe squaring up a ball with a cylinder.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
Richter blows
DiPietro is the best!
"..."
by Thaddeus Ballpheasant on Aug 26, 2011 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Whenever I start to think the Islanders may be on to something
I remember that it’ll all be for naught when they start DiPietro over Poulin or Montoya.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
Until he gets injured
He’s like Jose Reyes, but convert a bunch of the skill into injury proclivity.
"..."
by Thaddeus Ballpheasant on Aug 26, 2011 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Islanders got rid of Luongo to draft him and took him over guys like Gaborik and Heately.
Not as bad as trading Chara and a first round pick for Yashin though.
Yeah, you're right
Milbury was a hell of a GM. I love how NBC and VS acts like he’s this Hockey expert. Then again they really want him to be another Don Cherry. He’s nearly as xenophobic as Cherry is.
Isn't Nabokov gonna compete for the #1 job too?
Al Montaya was a hell of a first round pick by the Rangers in '04 To be fair, it wasn’t nearly as bad as a first round pick as Hugh Jessiman was in ’03. Hugh was drafted over future franchise players like Parise, Getzlaf, and Richards that year.
Who knows.
I haven’t heard anything about him actually showing up. But even if he does, they will still be shooting themselves in the foot. Instead of giving a guy time who might be able to help them when they can compete (Montoya or Poulin – especially Poulin), they’ll be playing either a bad goalie (DP) or an old one (Nabokov).
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
Well then I guess Montoya will get even less ice time to prove that he is a capable NHLer.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
I think the Isles are planning on shopping Nabokov
but until they move him, he’ll get ice time.
Montoya was overtaken by a good (lucky?) late round pick in Henrik and never got the time to prove himself. I don’t know what Phoenix was doing (being horribly talent evaluators?) where he got buried in their system.
"..."
by Thaddeus Ballpheasant on Aug 26, 2011 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Goalies typically take a few years to get going.
Just look at Fleury. It took him 3 years to really come into his own and he got the playing time. Same story with Luongo. And yeah, Montoya was partially a victim of circumstance being drafted by the same team as a guy who was described by the man who scouted him as the best goaltending talent to come from Europe since Hasek and then going to Phoenix who had Ilya Bryzgalov but he did usually have the sarting gig in the AHL. He had great coaching in NY with Benoit Allaire and Sean Burke seems to have gotten results in PHX but I wouldn’t trust Mike Dunham (the Islanders goaltending coach) with anyone’s career. Montoya is 26 now so he should be coming into his prime, but we’ll see.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
I love great saves as much as the next hockey fan...
But I don’t quite think they’re quite as cool as HR-robbing catches. Most hockey games have at least one ridiculous save; you only see a few truly amazing HR-robbing catches in an entire baseball season.
You're both incredibly wrong.
Here. Sorry for the poor quality, it was the only video I could find thanks to MLB’s draconian “we don’t want you to watch our sport” policy.
by Criss Angel Couldn't Make Frenchy Vanish on Aug 25, 2011 9:59 PM EDT reply actions
The other teams have the same problem as the Mets,
the walls in the OF should rob as many HRs from opposing teams as they do from the Mets. That is why people suggest building a team that focuses on speed and defense – trying to take as many extra bases as possible, while stealing as many as possible from the other team. That being said, we obviously simply can’t ignore the long ball hitters; although, we have no HR hitters now and the team is still top 5 in runs in the NL. The problem is not the park, and shrinking it is not going to do anything to give the Mets or their players an advantage, because it helps both sides, but the Mets have no HR power. The problem has been the terrible bullpen and average-at-best SP, while constantly fielding a makeshift team (too often due to injuries) of guys who should be on the bench or in AAA.
I LIKE IKE!
by astromets on Aug 25, 2011 10:03 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I think this is a sissy move
Citifield could be the best home field advantage in all of the majors if the Mets built the right team for the park. Yeah, it’s a big park, and if you want guys to be hitting 30+ home runs in it, you’re going to need to get legitimate power hitters, the kind of guys who can hit home runs out of any park. And there are lots of those guys around the majors, they just aren’t on the Mets. The Mets just don’t have power hitters on their team to begin with. And till the time that a guy like Ike Davis develops, of you bring in a big masher, stick with the plan of building around speed and defense.
When Wright was healthy in 2010 he hit 29 home runs. Beltran was on base for solid home run totals. Ike hit 19 in his rookie year. The problem with the Mets is that they simply haven’t had any good players for the past few years, and the few stars they have had have been injured. Delgado/Beltran/Wright/Reyes have all missed significant time. What big stars were supposed to be hitting home runs for the Mets in that time? Francouer? Alex Cora? Willie Harris? Pagan and Murph? These guys aren’t home run hitters and shouldn’t be expected to be.
I just don’t think bringing the fences in or changing their height is really going to make this team better. They lack good pitchers and good hitters and play mediocre defense. Fix that before you blame the stadium.
"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell
Sure, you could build a team that plays to the park's strengths
but you also have to play 81 games on the road, too. When you’re in Philly or playing against another slugging team on the road, I’d imagine you’d notice a difference, no?
I don’t think the people on this site that are for modifying the walls are of the mindset that doing that will magically make the team “better”. That’s kind of stupid, although I’m sure there are plenty of WFAN mouth-breathers who do believe that’s the “magical cure-all”.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Aug 25, 2011 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Then all the better.
A team with high OBP and good speed but average power will do well anywhere.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
There are plenty of misconceptions going around.
The park layout, dimensions and redesign are discretionary constructions. It can be changed anyway they want. Just because some people are proposing to change one or other aspect, doesn’t mean they want to do it to “make the team better”. Just because one person thinks the stadium layout is fine, doesn’t mean it’s a “sissy move” if others want to change it. Personally, if a player hits a fly-ner 420ft, I think that should be a HR. Differently from Callan, I don’t think the park should be a “reaction” to the past when HR were cheap or the Yankee Stadium. Each one will have their own interpretation if it were their ballpark.
About “legitimate power hitters”, even if you had Votto (37 HR in 2010) kind of player, he’ll see his total HR drop after half of his games in Citi Field. Not all of a slugger’s HR are over 400ft. Some are classified as “lucky” or “just enough”, based on distance, location, apex, etc. We could fill the team with sluggers, but they would still feel some effect in their production.
About “stick with the plan of building around speed and defense”. 1) There is only so much speed/defense can do. Run scoring accounts for half of the game (speed is a small part of it). Defense is just a portion of run prevention. 2) There is also a limit on how much you can build a team to fit the ballpark. Players who would theoretically fit the park aren’t readily available to fill all the open positions and you still have to play half of the games on the road (we still re-sign Ray ASS because he is a good player overall and speed is not his only feature). There was one article (at the AAA?) about Moneyball, and despite some teams trying to exploit new market efficiency (Seattle’s defense), OBP and pitching still account for a large portion of the team performance.
In lobby for: Jaime Cevallos, Zack Lutz, orange unis and Rickroll as the 7th inning song.
The Unwritten Rules of AA
by Michkin on Aug 26, 2011 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
They showed Bay's HRs from 2009
And most of them were just over the wall types. Which always made me wonder about the “power fits better at Citi Field” comment from the previous FO.
This may all be irrelevant after Sunday
Just saw a track for Irene that has the eye passing within a mile of Citi Field.
One day, this team is going to kill me.

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