Trading Jason Bay for A.J. Burnett Makes No Sense
Yesterday, Stan Chrapowicki of the Daily News took up the idea that the Mets and Yankees should trade Jason Bay for A.J. Burnett, suggesting that it makes sense for both teams. He asks the reader to imagine what Bay and Burnett could do if they swapped ballparks and leagues. Chrapowicki also writes that trading the two players makes economic for both teams since the years and dollars remaining on their contracts are the same: two years, $32 million. Does a "change of scenery" trade make sense, though?
It's important to consider the correct details of Jason Bay's contract before looking at the financial commitments involved in the trade. Thanks to another Omar Minaya vesting option, Bay will earn a guaranteed $17 million in 2014 if he gets 600 plate appearances in 2013 or 500 plate apperances in both 2012 and 2013. If he doesn't get the plate appearances to trigger the option, he would be owed $3 million to buy out the option year.
Despite the fact that the Yankees lead baseball in payroll on an annual basis, Bay's contract is a big red flag. They may lose Nick Swisher in free agency this winter, but it is highly unlikely that the Yankees will commit to two guaranteed years and a third virtually-guaranteed year of Bay. Even if they don't have any internal options to fill the potential void left by Swisher, there are plenty of cheaper players hitting free agency this year who could produce just as well as Bay at a much lower cost. With Brett Gardner and Curtis Granderson firmly in their outfield and a lineup that's already outstanding, the Yankees are not desperate for a player like Bay.
As for the Mets, A.J. Burnett turns 35 years old on January 3, 2012, and his performance over the past three seasons has been roughly equivalent to that of Mike Pelfrey. Burnett strikes out more batters than Pelfrey, but he walks significantly more, too. His high-water marks in strikeouts per nine innings came in 2007 and 2008 while he was with the Blue Jays, but they dropped upon his arrival in the Bronx and aren't very good now. That probably has something to do with the fact that his average fastball in 2011 has been 1.7 mph slower than it was in 2008, according to PitchFx.
On top of those troubling trends, Burnett has always been a pitcher whose performance never lived up to his peripherals. Burnett's career 4.10 ERA is worse than his 4.00 FIP and 3.79 xFIP. Even in the best case scenario in which Citi Field and the National League boost his performance, he's probably not getting much better than he is now.
Each team is better off holding on to the under-performing player it already has. For the Mets, there's a better chance the Bay returns to something resembling his slugging self from his years with the Red Sox and Pirates than there is of Burnett turning into anything better than a back-of-the-rotation starter. If Bay shows any signs of life, perhaps the Mets will be able to get out from under his contract like they did this year with Francisco Rodriguez. If not, they'll have to deal with the vesting option on their own during the 2012 season, but that still sounds better than having an even older A.J. Burnett in decline.
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Even if it means dumping Bay, aquiring Burnett doesn't make much sense from the Mets' point of view
Going into next season, our projected line-up without doing any major tinkering is Santana, Dickey, Niese, Pelfrey, and Gee. The only real question mark, in terms of having a permanent spot in the rotation, is Pelfrey. Santana, he’s owed a lot of money and is our de facto ace. Dickey, he’s pretty solid, and pretty cheap. Niese, same thing. Gee, he’s shaky, but he’s proven he can more or less handle MLB pitching, and is a cheap and serviceable 5th starter. Pelfrey, he’s the one who, because of performance and salary for next season, people are thinking about dumping. So, let’s say that Pelfrey is dumped, and the Bay for Burnett swap goes down. The Mets now have, where we had Mike Pelfrey, a pitcher who is about as shaky and flukey, performance wise, who makes two times as much as Pelfrey made and is almost ten years older.
That’s an Omar move, not a Sandy move.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Aug 29, 2011 1:23 PM EDT reply actions
I would say Gee is a question mark, too.
He’s been pretty terrible as of late.
by Mike Clemente on Aug 29, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I would say Santana is a question mark, too.
At least until he shows he is healthy enough to start every 5 days
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Yup.
It’s a lateral move at best for an old, expensive “name with cache” type player.
No thanks.
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by Steve Schreiber on Aug 29, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to mention
That Capuano is probably as good as Burnett and will be a hell of a lot cheaper
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by Aidan Gibson on Aug 29, 2011 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
If bay continues to suck, why wouldn't the mets just cut him in 2013
There is no chance they lose a grievance, if the guy is OPS’ing under .700
I agree
And besides, even if they don’t cut him, I’m pretty sure they would eventually bench him before the vest comes if he wasn’t performing enough.
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by Bobby Baseball on Aug 29, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Right and they will be justified in doing so
Unlike the KRod situation where his perceived ability to still be a closer meant you couldn’t justify not having him in that role.
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by Bobby Baseball on Aug 29, 2011 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
My reaction is:
That is a terrible, pitiful idea, and I am so numb to horrific pitching and so sick of watching Jason Bay walk dejectedly back to the dugout that I almost wish it would happen anyway.
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I want no part of A.J. Burnett at all
whatsoever never not one little bit piece or slice
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Grammar mistake
Big red flag not bid red flag.
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A lot of players are mentioned here on AA as possible return for Jason Bay (Burnett, Rios, Zambrano, Soriano, Peavey, and Dunn come to mind). I think Mets fans need to face the fact that there is no perfect solution to trading Bay- an under-performing player with a big contract will have to come back to the Mets. If Alderson can arrange a trade without taking an expensive contract in return, that would be great.
Bay and Wrongz
for a baby
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by Bobby Baseball on Aug 29, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Burnett is the contract I throw out to every Yankee fan
that makes fun of the LOLie contract.
Am I doing this right?
I know Bay hasn't panned out
and isn’t likey to come close to being worth this contract in the next 2 years. Even so, Pass on Burnett. We have enough back-end of the type pitchers. We don’t need another one for this type of $$.
Plus, at least Bay’s defense has been solid.
by MetsFan4Decades on Aug 29, 2011 2:13 PM EDT reply actions
tell me more
I believe in one Dickey, Maker of knuckles and balls
by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Aug 29, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for tearing down this article, Chris.
I was tempted to put it in the applesauce over the weekend, mainly because there was little actual news due to the canceled games but ultimately decided not to because I didn’t want to insult the intelligence of the Amazin’ Avenue readership with this poorly researched, moronic, nonsensical dreck like that.
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by Steve Schreiber on Aug 29, 2011 3:09 PM EDT reply actions
jesus pogo stick christ no
bay at least plays defense and does it well.
burnett is pure turds through and through
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by Cory Braiterman on Aug 29, 2011 3:37 PM EDT reply actions
I do believe this is the wrongest thing that's ever been published to the AA main page.
The Burnett idea is a good one — not because “change of scenery” is magic, but because Burnett is a much better pitcher than the screaming-mongo media think, but he’s still worn out his welcome with the Yankees. As Ken Tremendous recently tweeted:
AJ Burnett (bum, loser, can’t pitch in NY): 1.44 WHIP. Ivan Nova (hero, savior, #2 starter in playoffs?!): 1.39 WHIP.
(And his xFIP is actually better than Nova’s.) It’s worth exploiting the media circus and the Yankees’ ability to eat salary to pick up anything useful in exchange for Bay. And the Mets could absolutely use another starting pitcher, even at Burnett’s current level of performance and expecting no “change of scenery” rebound, more than they can use a shitty replacement-level outfielder who’s only blocking the readily available young OF talent they have stockpiled. If Burnett and Bay could be swapped straight-up, Sandy would be a fool to pass, and I suspect people who think otherwise are putting way too much stock in the Post and WFAN’s take on Burnett.
Do you honestly think I care about what the Post and WFAN think of Burnett?
by Chris McShane on Aug 29, 2011 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
He will turn 35 in January and appears to be in decline.
Not really a narrative.
by Chris McShane on Aug 29, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
What makes you think he's more washed-up than Bay?
I guess that’s the real root of the question here. The post says:
For the Mets, there’s a better chance the Bay returns to something resembling his slugging self from his years with the Red Sox and Pirates than there is of Burnett turning into anything better than a back-of-the-rotation starter.
But I don’t see why this is so. Burnett is at least a minimally useful piece even if he gets no better: though the Mets have been lucky with their starters’ health this year, most seasons you can definitely use a 1-WAR innings-eating #6 starter, and he’d be a possible bullpen upgrade over guys like Igarashi as well. Bay is providing nothing that the Mets can’t get from players already on the roster.
I agree with the part of your post that argues the Yankees probably wouldn’t be willing do this deal. But to the extent you’re arguing the Mets shouldn’t, I totally disagree.
Since their remaining salaries almost match up, looking at what they can produce now and going forward to determine their value
This sort of analysis would require a careful study, but in a simple projection:
Bay went from a .397 wOBA (2009) to .336 (2010) to .299 (2011). It’s not just a BABIP fluke, his power is gone. He is basically a replacement level player now, with his “bounce back” upside being around league average (.330ish wOBA, +10 batting, -5fielding, +20 replacement, -5 positional, 2 WAR). We still have absolutely no clue what caused his sharp decrease in production, so it’s hard to gauge the chances if it’s a permanent decline or if it’s fixable. Some age regression was accounted for, but not that much.
Burnett is around a 4.8 FIP at 180 innings to 1.3 to 1.5 WAR, again in some ruff projection.
This is all without accounting for the difference in park/leagues or team needs. Bay would move to a hitters park (that benefits more LHB than RHB) while Burnett would move to a pitchers park. Burnett has had a problem with HR, but his HR/FB rate is actually higher on the road (Joey Bats effect? AL or ALE effect?). If we had some BIP data, we could get a better idea of those park effects. Unfortunately, hittrackeronline only has HR’s.
It’s difficult enough to project them going forward (an updated zips projection could give us a clue), even more when accounting for differences in park/league. Though from what we have now it looks like Burnett could still be useful and fill one of our needs. I don’t know if AJ is showing any sign of health problems or other red flags, besides the decline in his FB velocity.
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by Michkin on Aug 30, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd, this is how it looks to me as well
The key for me is that, given both players’ reduced current performance, one can fill an actual need (starting/bullpen depth) while the other one doesn’t. Forecasting is hard; I don’t see any real reason to handicap Bay’s chances of rebounding by a win or more as greater than Burnett’s.
I actually agree that this might be worth looking into
Sadly, Bay only brings value as a platoon bat. He has been OPSing lefties to the tune of .800+. I really don’t like the “Bay’s defense brings value” agruement. Yes, he is not a bad defender, but his glove doesn’t make up for his crappy overall slash line. It won’t be long before Duda moves over to left and F-Mart or Capt’ Kirk move to right.
If Bay doesn’t turn it around the best the Mets can do is use him off the bench/platoon to keep that option from vesting.
If you trade him for Burnett, the Mets can actually run him out for the majority of his starts. As you stated, his peripherals aren’t that bad. His velocity is worisome, but switching out of the AL Beast and no DH should help him.
As McShane stated, this trade won’t happen because Cashman is not stupid enough to walk right into that stupid option.
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by Coolpapabell on Aug 29, 2011 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
but don't forget
As McShane stated, this trade won’t happen because Cashman is not stupid enough to walk right into that stupid option.
that money means less to the Yankees than it does to us. A combination of diminishing marginal value on the Yankees part and shaky ownership fiscal shape on the Mets part.
Plus, the Yankees always want former Red Sox who used to be good.
Fixed the image caption
Trade Jason Bay for A.J. Burnett?

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by Thaddeus Ballpheasant on Aug 29, 2011 8:26 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

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