"It's very difficult, unless you're one of a couple of teams, to have three, four guys making $15...

"It's very difficult, unless you're one of a couple of teams, to have three, four guys making $15 million-plus," Alderson said. "I don't care who you are -- again, with the exception maybe of a couple of teams. So I would expect we'll be looking actively in the free-agent market, but we've got to get it to a position where we can be active every year and not be hamstrung by existing contracts."

- Sandy Alderson to ESPN New York, regarding whether Einhorn's exit means Reyes is now unaffordable

Yes, Sandy said "hamstrung."

(H/T to @HecklingSociety for catching that)

9 months ago Matthew Artus 46 comments 0 recs |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Around SB Nation

What the Stolen Base Could Mean to the Miami Marlins

Apr 2012 from Fish Stripes - 4 comments

Washington Nationals 2-0 Over Miami Marlins; Ross Detwiler With 6.0 Scoreless On Rick Ankiel Night.

Apr 2012 from Federal Baseball - 34 comments

Ozzie Guillen, Miami Marlins Star in Preview Episode of "The Franchise"

Apr 2012 from Fish Stripes - 2 comments

Wire Taps: Washington Nationals Finally Back In Action Tonight vs San Diego Padres.

Apr 2012 from Federal Baseball - 28 comments

Fish Stripes: Wednesday

Apr 2012 from Fish Stripes - 0 comments

Comments

I can see Alderson offering Reyes a contract where he gets a minimal raise for the first couple of years of the deal, and then it jumps up towards $20M after 2013 when Bay and Santana are off the books.

by xnumberoneson on Sep 2, 2011 12:29 PM EDT reply actions

I think you mean you hope Alderson does that

Because I really don’t see him pulling that kind of move.

For what it’s worth, SNY has already begun a low scale propaganda campaign on their shows how Jose Reyes at this point isn’t worth any more than a 3 year incentive laden deal, and if Reyes thinks he’s going to get more, he’s nuts. Furthermore, on at least two of their shows now, I’ve heard it argued that if the Mets don’t bring Jose back, it has nothing to do with money. They seem to be doing damage control for when (if) he leaves the team, and are trying to suggest that a Reyes departure has nothing to do with any of the Wilpon’s financial issues.

Should be an interesting off season.

"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell

by Rey-O on Sep 2, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions

sny shows lol

people watch those?

by nrmax88 on Sep 2, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions

Adam Rubin lobby for page views, I guess

I don’t have time to search right now, but I read an account of what Sandy said Wed night, and I’m almost certain he said something like, the payroll will be lower, maybe 110ish, we want to have flexibility, yadda yadda – everything that’s reported here. But he also said: and we want to make a run at Reyes, as one of the components of the otherwise general need for frugality. So framing it as, oh noes, Einhorn gone, Sandy makes a speech about belt tightening, Reyes is gone! seems almost outright dishonest.

Did anybody else see that full account? I think we all know that if, as Gary said last night, a team throws a crazy amount of money at Reyes we won’t match it, but my impression is that Sandy fully intends to try to re-sign him, and not just a half-hearted attempt so he can say that he did.

by SuperT on Sep 2, 2011 12:54 PM EDT reply actions

Here's the article I had read

http://aol.sportingnews.com/mlb/story/2011-09-01/mets-gm-alderson-signals-payroll-cut-for-2012

“I think that we’ve got to be judicious about the free-agent market, especially over the next couple of years,” Alderson said. “We will have a considerable amount of money coming off payroll. But we still want to field a competitive team and we want to take a run at Jose Reyes.”

It’s an absurd reporting job by Rubin, to leave out the line that most directly addresses his topic.

by SuperT on Sep 2, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

As I've demonstrated in the past, with a payroll of $110 million, the Mets can afford signing Reyes to a market-value contract

My AAOP is like 3/4 of the way done with the theoretics, and via trades and FA signings, I have a pretty decent team, covering all the bases, and I think my payroll is at $116 million.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 2, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions

I dont actually believe the Einhorn situation changes things

The Wilpons appear to be in a stronger position (Madoff-wise) then they were when the negotiations opened. They probably slow-rolled the closing of the deal in case things changed to their benefit, which they did. Next year there will be a lot of payroll room to sign Reyes. It will have more to do with Sandy’s desire rather than ability to do so. My gut: 5 years or less, he stays, someone offers 6, they let him walk.

Am I doing this right?

by brooklynberger on Sep 2, 2011 1:01 PM EDT reply actions

Options (club and player) fix that, I think

Offer him a guaranteed five or six, with options where both the club and the player have to agree for the next year (or two).

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 2, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions

While there may not be many teams that can afford to have 4 or more 15M dollar guys

The Mets should be one of the teams that can. Being in a large market they should be able to support those contracts if they have a competitive product to put on the field that actually gets people to come to the games.

Look at what has happened to the Phillies in recent years. Once they got good people actually started going to Phillies games and they have a $160M payroll.

by Balagast on Sep 2, 2011 1:03 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

this this and this too

I believe in one Dickey, Maker of knuckles and balls

by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Sep 2, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions

The Phillies were good before their payroll ballooned

"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell

by Rey-O on Sep 2, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions

you mean

People started going to Phillies games before payroll ballooned.

in other words. Attendence this year will affect projected revenue for next year which affects payroll. There are 14 games left. Going to them makes it easier to sign Reyes.

-Ceetar, the Optimistic Mets Fan

by Ceetar on Sep 2, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions

yeah but they weren't good before people started showing up,

before payroll ballooned.

by nrmax88 on Sep 2, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions

Payroll ballooned more or less after 2008

I would say they were good enough in 2007 (edged us out by one game, but got ran over by the Rockies), and legitimately good in 2008- a lot of the post-season was lightning in the bottle, though, with Lidge and Hamels.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 2, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Yes they were.

They won division two years in a row, and won the world series in 2008. That’s gotta be “good”.

Then their payroll ballooned.

"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell

by Rey-O on Sep 2, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm going to respectfully disagree.

We had a bullpen in 2007-2008 that absolutely could not get anyone out. Even if we simply had an replacement level pen the Philth don’t sniff the post season either year. Also, they had a fan base that started to roll in around 2004-2005 because of their new stadium (which still offered relatively cheap tickets while a lot of Eagles fans got priced out of Lincoln Financial Field). Each year since it has opened in 2004, CBP has brought in more fans yearly than the NL average: http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/philattn.shtml

So I choose to use the words “lucky” rather than “good.” But regardless, they have had a steady fan base for several years now, enough to justify an increased payroll.

Let's go have a beer, Doc.

by Crazy Nyce Dave on Sep 2, 2011 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions

Seriously.

Biggest media market in the country and with their own TV network and all that.

by JoshNY on Sep 2, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions

yeah.

My first reaction to this horrible pull-quote is exactly that. The Mets ARE one of that “couple of teams.”

This is the first thing I’ve seen that makes “Small Market Sandy” (or Fred, I guess) seem like a real thing rather than an overheated WFAN fantasy. Disturbing.

by anonymous on Sep 2, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions

Well in their current state I don't think they are

I don’t claim to have all their financial information, but if attendance figures are any decent gauge of their revenue it has to be down in recent years.

by Balagast on Sep 2, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions

Not at this time they're not.

They’re in one of those markets that can support it, but due to Omar’s contracts and the Wilpon’s Wilpon-ness, they can’t act like it.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.

by Ogre39666 on Sep 2, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Wilponness?

If the Wilpons’ finances are actually compromising the team’s ability to compete to that degree, then MLB should step in and take over the team the way they’ve done in LA. It’s just absurd to have the GM of a team that plays in New York whining that he can’t afford to pay superstar players.

I know there may be short-term reasons why the Wilpons want to keep the payroll in the 110M range for a year or two — that seems reasonable enough — but that’s not what the tone and drift of the Rubin piece suggest. Though on reflection I’m coming around to SuperT’s contention that Rubin just misreported what Sandy was actually communicating.

by anonymous on Sep 2, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions

MLB has't stepped in (at least not that we know of) because they are still able to meat payroll.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.

by Ogre39666 on Sep 2, 2011 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions

In comparison to

the AOL article, this is a cut-and-paste job by Rubin to try to get more page views/retweets/whatever. Unsurprising.

What's that about?

by Brian. on Sep 2, 2011 1:45 PM EDT via mobile reply actions

Interesting chart

showing the Mets payroll’s high standard deviation. We are a team with a few kings and a bunch of pawns. Bishops and knights are for the most part missing.

by Kepler on Sep 2, 2011 1:48 PM EDT reply actions

Link fail

Link fail.

by Kepler on Sep 2, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions

This

is what Omar never got.

Am I doing this right?

by brooklynberger on Sep 2, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions

Thought the Mets were higher than 118.

I thought they were closer to 140. I wonder if this is total spend or if they are annualizing the payroll based on the loss of Rodriguez and Beltran.

Am I doing this right?

by brooklynberger on Sep 2, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions

I believe that is the payroll minus Perez and Castillo and GMJ.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.

by Ogre39666 on Sep 2, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions

teams with big payrolls tend to be that way

by secret defense on Sep 2, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Not the Redsox

Am I doing this right?

by brooklynberger on Sep 2, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions

Red Sox has the 6th highest SD and 3rd highest payroll

if you brought up the Dodgers at least you’d have a better counterexample.

by secret defense on Sep 2, 2011 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions

Perhaps I misunderstood your comment

Redsox mean and median salary is nearly identical, so I was throwing out the fact that they do have a lot of bishops, knights and even rooks, not just kings and pawns.

Am I doing this right?

by brooklynberger on Sep 2, 2011 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions

Well, hopefully

The Rey(es) stay the Rey(es), and Duda, Pagan, et al are some smart-ass pawns.

by dontstopbelieving on Sep 2, 2011 2:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs

Man, at the end of season 4, I just kept remembering Bodie saying from this scene.

“Unless they some smart-ass pawns.”

by Evan_S on Sep 2, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm scared now

by Evan_S on Sep 2, 2011 3:02 PM EDT reply actions

Do you need a hug?

Because you won’t get it from me.

__________________________________________________
"He who gets the best players usually wins" - Bobby Bowden

by Russ on Sep 2, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions

We are the NL version of the Cubs. Oh wait.

In lobby for: Jaime Cevallos, Zack Lutz, orange unis and Rickroll as the 7th inning song.
The Unwritten Rules of AA

by Michkin on Sep 2, 2011 3:05 PM EDT reply actions

Since no one else is here to do it

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com

by Cory Braiterman on Sep 2, 2011 3:22 PM EDT reply actions

Why do i get the feel

That the entire organization is leading up to not resigning Reyes, even SNY seems to be against it.

Down 2 in the bottom of the ninth?
Lets Bring in Willie Harris!

by ShaqKazaam on Sep 2, 2011 3:29 PM EDT reply actions

Since a lot of people seem to be overracting,

The team has $66.83 committed to players next season. Say Pelfrey makes another $1.5 million in arbitration (so he’s making $5.4 million), Pagan another $1.5 million (so he’s making $5 million), Paulino another $1 million (so he’s making $2.2 million), and Parnell another million (so he’s making $1.5 million), that adds $5 million dollars to what we already have committed to 2012, bring it up to $71.83 before making any FA signings. If Reyes signs for $16 million dollars for 2012 (ignoring the length of the deal, or rising price tag), that brings the team’s payroll to $87.83 million. If we have a budget between $100 and $110 million, that leaves him with $12.17 million to $22.17 million dollars to make other signings. Doesn’t seem like too much at first, especially the $12.17 figure, but keep in mind that, for the most part, we have all of our bases covered- every starting position is covered, and the rotation is covered. That $12.17 to $22.17 million is seemingly mostly going to be going towards reinforcing the bench (the Scott Hairstons of the baseball world aren’t going to be asking for contracts worth millions dollars), and the bullpen (of which, we’ll need to fill three, four spots, not taking into account possible Minor League call-ups pitching their way onto the Mets).

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 2, 2011 3:52 PM EDT reply actions

I keep seeing

variations from other fans on other Met blogs close to your figures above.

I’m keeping my fingers crossed this is closer to reality and the rest (yes, you included Rubin), are spinning Met fans up mostly for the explicit reason of generating hits to your articles.

by MetsFan4Decades on Sep 2, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions

Yup, that sounds about right.

Did you get your info from Cots? Because the one interesting thing there is that Frankie Rodriguez’s 3.5M buyout is factored into that 66.83M figure. I’m not sure, but I could swear that buyouts don’t count towards payroll. That they just “other expenses” but I may be wrong.

If so, you can shave off 3.5M (a seemingly small figure, but 3.5M could get another one or two players for the bench or bullpen).

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Sep 2, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions

Off a bit

Just take the numbers as they are

Santana – 24 million
Bay – 18.1 million
Wright – 15.25 million
Dickey – 4.75 million
Carrasco – 1.2 million

Those five players bring it to 63.3 million. Add in Pelfrey (5.4), Pagan (5.0), Paulino (2.2) and Parnell (1.5) and that brings it up to 77.4 million. If Reyes signs for 16 million, that brings it up to 93.4 million. If we have a budget between $100 and $110 million, that leaves us with $7-$17 million dollars in open payroll for the remaining 15 players. Considering 7 of them are close to locks and going to be making the minimum (Duda, Tejada, Beato, Thole, Murphy, Ike, Niese), that’s 3.2 million off.

So in reality, with Reyes, we’d have between 3.8 and 13.8 million bucks to work with to round out the last 8 players on the roster.

This of course, is where the K-Rod deal was key…when this was discussed months ago, his option would have completely destroyed any chances of the Mets had of resigning Reyes. Now, it’s at least possible.

"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell

by Rey-O on Sep 2, 2011 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions

Why do I always mess up with the math? I am math retarded

But, irregular figures aside, the point remains, yeah: Reyes being signed to a deal that gives him a reasonable $16 million in 2012 leaves us with that $3.8 to $13.8 million dollars left to play with, and most of the spots that are going to be open are going to be ones that can/should be filled by players making the Major League minimum or close to it. Eight guys making the ML minimum, coincidentally, make $3.2 million dollars, so even with the bare minimum, it works out.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 3, 2011 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions