Jack McKeon, Troll Manager

by James Kannengieser on Sep 2, 2011 3:05 PM EDT

Smoking cigars and embarrassing young'ns is every octogenarian's right. Or so Jack McKeon's mantra seems to go. Twice in the last two months against the Mets, McKeon has pulled a Marlins pitcher mid at-bat, after the pitcher had thrown multiple pitches. Neither time did the pitcher appreciate the decision. The first was back on July 18th, when McKeon replaced Randy Choate after a spat of wildness. A story in pictures:

The hook

The destruction

The exit

The return glare

In last night's game, Marlins starter Clay Hensley couldn't find the plate in the third inning and McKeon had none of it. Again, pictures:

The hook

The destruction

The exit

The post-game quote

"I don't really know what to say about it," said Hensley, who swatted over the water cooler in the dugout. "I better keep it to a minimum tonight so I don't get myself in trouble."

It's tough to decide who had the best reaction. Choate only kicked a cup in disgust but hilariously returned to the dugout red in the face. Hensley did not return with a crazed expression but went all Basterds on the water cooler. If forced to choose, Hensley wins the Just Got Trolled By My Manager Award for most entertaining reaction.

Is this a wise approach for McKeon? It certainly fits with his old school, take-no-guff, don't-mess-with-me persona that (I'm guessing) he relishes. Keith Hernandez expressed support, saying that pitchers would know better than to melt down on the mound next time around. Easier said than done. Also, it's likely the pitchers' poor performances contributed to their shows of frustration, in addition to being pulled. I'd say any strategic advantage of making a mid at-bat pitching change is outweighed by the negative effect on "clubhouse chemistry", or whatever it is to be called. If a pitcher is good enough to start an at-bat, he is good enough finish it. No one likes to be publicly embarrassed. People are more likely to remember criticism than they are compliments.

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Comments

I don't see the sense in it

It’s not as if the next pitcher who comes in is magically going to get out of being in a 2-1, 3-1, or 3-0 count. Let the pitcher dig himseout of whatever hitters count he got himself into, and then take him out.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 2, 2011 3:14 PM EDT reply actions

McKeon's a prick bully

At a minimum, removing a pitcher mid-AB is unfair to the reliever coming in. It’s precisely the kind of thing people do when they themselves do not expect to be held to account for their actions.

To wit, whose brilliant friggin’ decision is it to keep trotting Bonerface out there everyday at one of—if not the—most difficult defensive positions on the field?

"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin

by dcrockett17 on Sep 2, 2011 3:15 PM EDT reply actions

Ron Darling had the right take

He said that, when McKeon first took over mid-season, stunts like pulling the starter mid-batter in the 3rd inning with a lead might make sense as shock therapy: “We’re not going to sit around and watch you implode.” A breath of fresh air, as it were. But by September 1, with the team long since out of postseason contention and McKeon having managed for 50-60 games already, the act gets old.

You can shake your fist at the sky, and be as “old school” as you want, but after a whle these moves just aren’t going to motivate your players or make your team better.

by acoustic567 on Sep 2, 2011 3:25 PM EDT reply actions

Agree with this.

Maybe if come September you’re in a hotly contested race that will go down to the wire with every game counting (and as Met fans we know all about the difference between one more win and another loss) – it might make sense.

But this is September during a Met vs. Marlins game. Mets are just trying to finish up .500 or above and Marlins are just trying to finish up with the least embarrassment possible. Certainly looks like they’re going to wind up in the basement no matter what.

by MetsFan4Decades on Sep 2, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions

I love that McKeon will bench Hanley every single game if he has to in order to prevent him from not hustling a ground ball

And if he puts in a reliever in during an important at bat late in the game, and the pitcher starts 3-0, I can even understand pulling him out. Sorry if I hurt your feelings but this is a game we have to win.

But when you are in last place against a third place team, and it is the third inning, and the score is 2-1 and you are winning, I don’t agree at all with pulling the starting pitcher. I would be terribly upset if I were Hensley. To me, the message that sends is, “I don’t have confidence in you.” That is a terrible message for a manager to send to a player, especially in a meaningless game.

Again, if this game had playoff hopes riding on it, I would understand and even agree with McKeon’s decision. But at this point, I feel like he was just being a total douche to Hensley.

Bobby Baseball - The future of Amazin' Avenue.

by Bobby Baseball on Sep 2, 2011 3:32 PM EDT reply actions

Even if the team were in contention, what are the odds that a new pitcher makes the situation better?

If the count is 3-0 when the new guy comes in, he has no margin of error. One ball, and the guy walks. Granted, yeah, the new pitcher is fresh, whereas the other guy might be tired, or wild, or whatever that led him to getting behind 3-0, but…The batter knows that the new pitcher is going to be throwing a fastball more or less down the middle, to get that strike 1 and strike 2. It doesn’t seem like it solves anything.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 2, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions

In other words...

as a baseball tactic, it’s poor. It’s one thing to remove a pitcher after failing to retire a batter, but 3 pitches into the AB is poor managing.

Sometimes old people are just wrong; how irascible they are should have nothing to do with it.

"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin

by dcrockett17 on Sep 2, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions

Certainly didn't last night.

If I remember correctly, Wright got a single anyway that scored two – and he took second base on a bad throw to the cutoff man or the plate. Still not sure what he was aiming for there.

by MetsFan4Decades on Sep 2, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions

I'll give you an example

Lets say you are the Yankees. You are up by 1 run in the 8th inning against the Red Sox in the ALCS game 7. There are 2 outs and bases loaded. You bring in the lefty specialist to face Adrian Gonzalez. He goes down 3-0. Another ball and its a tie game. Now you bring in Mariano Rivera. You know he will throw a cutter probably right down the middle, but that doensnt mean you can hit it.

Or even for the Mets, lets say Igarashi falls behind 3-0 and you bring in Parnell. You know he will throw a fastball, but at 100 mph that doesnt mean you can hit it.

Bobby Baseball - The future of Amazin' Avenue.

by Bobby Baseball on Sep 2, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions

If Parnell throws it, you can hit it,

I can hit it, my mother can hit it, a zombie can hit it…

by Curtis3331 on Sep 2, 2011 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions

Maybe I'm still bitter about the past...

…but these guys can’t lose enough games for me to be happy. Eff the Fish.

Let's go have a beer, Doc.

by Crazy Nyce Dave on Sep 2, 2011 5:30 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs

This a hundred times over

Screw them and their douchey spoiler-ness

"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage

by blueandorange4life on Sep 2, 2011 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions

isn't a meaningless September game the perfect time to let your young pitcher work through jams?

I LIKE IKE!

by astromets on Sep 2, 2011 5:39 PM EDT reply actions

Yes.

by Curtis3331 on Sep 2, 2011 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions

Development?

“Fuck that…we need MEN out on the field. I remember back in the ’40’s when I played ball that……”

(2 hour rant)

“…and that’s why I get all of my prescriptions from Walgreens instead of Rite Aid. Those bastards.” —Jack McKeon

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Sep 2, 2011 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

"I'm an old man, George, and most people hate me

but I don’t like them either, so that makes it even."

by Pack Bringley on Sep 2, 2011 5:40 PM EDT reply actions

McKeon's worth it though

for when he waddles out to argue, his fubsy tummy shaking all about. God Bless the tradition that makes coaches wear the uniform. I’ve long hated Francona for shirking it.

by Pack Bringley on Sep 2, 2011 5:54 PM EDT reply actions

Think how funny the NBA could be

by Pack Bringley on Sep 2, 2011 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions

If thats' not an invitation for drive-by PhotoShop...

by Kepler on Sep 3, 2011 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions

According to francona's wikipedia page

During the 2005 season, Francona was hospitalized after complaining of severe chest pains. Tests revealed significantly clogged arteries, but it was concluded that Francona had not suffered a heart attack. This incident, as well as a life-threatening pulmonary embolism suffered in 2002, ongoing treatment for blood clots, and painful knees, have led to circulation issues which necessitate wearing extra clothes, including two pairs of tights. This is also why his regular uniform top is usually hidden by a pullover.

Bobby Baseball - The future of Amazin' Avenue.

by Bobby Baseball on Sep 2, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions

Wow, had no idea

“Hate” wasn’t really the apt word but it did always bug me. Now I know.

by Pack Bringley on Sep 2, 2011 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions

These criticisms imply

that it’s a calculation by McKeon ("they’re kids… scare ’em).

But he may just be a one-speed bicycle.

IMO there’s a huge difference between punishing Hanley for dogging it (never gets old) and humiliating pitchers for having the unmitigated gall to be wild. I can imagine how McKeon would have handled Rick Ankiel. “Get off my lawn!”