Mets 7, Nationals 3: Dickey Works Well on Short Rest
by Chris McShane on Sep 2, 2011 9:48 PM EDT
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The Mets set the tone early in their first of three games in the nation's capital. With Jose Reyes and Justin Turner on base in the first, David Wright hit bomb, his first-ever home run in Nationals Park. There was no question that the ball was gone off the bat.
In the bottom of the first, however, the Nationals were able to get a run on the board. R.A. Dickey, who uncharacteristically threw a whole lot of fastballs in his start, gave up a one-out double to Rick Ankiel and a two-out single to score him to Michael Morse.
Nick Evans answered the Nationals' run in the top of the second with a dinger of his own, a solo shot that put the Mets up back up by three. In the third, Angel Pagan drove in a couple more runs in the third inning on a single that scored Wright and Lucas Duda, giving the Mets a comfortable 6-1 lead.
Dickey, who was pitching on three-days' rest, kept the Nationals off the board through the fourth inning but allowed a pair of runs in the bottom of the fifth. After an Ian Desmond triple, Ankiel hit a home run, his second extra-base hit of the game off Dickey, the pull the Nationals within three.
The Mets got a little bit of insurance in the seventh inning on their third long ball of the game, this time off the bat of Lucas Duda. That bat is going to look pretty, pretty good near Ike Davis in the Mets' 2012 lineup.
Dickey stayed in to start the bottom of the inning but was pulled after allowing a leadoff single to Brian Bixler. Tim Byrdak came on and struck out Desmond and Ankiel. With the strikeout of Ankiel, a left-handed hitter, Byrdak has struck out 31 lefties in 91 plate appearances this season.
Terry Collins turned to Ryota Igarashi to finish off the inning, a risky proposition, but it worked out. He gave up a single to Ryan Zimmerman and went to a full count on Morse before striking him out to end the inning with the Mets' lead intact.
The Mets didn't do anything in the top of the eighth, but in the bottom of the inning, Josh Stinson, made his big league debut. He got Jayson Werth to ground out, thanks in part to Jose Reyes' gun of an arm, and then struck out the next two batters to complete his first inning of work.
Stinson's night wasn't over yet, though, and he was the only Met to reach base in the top of the ninth with a one-out walk. With a 1.000 OBP, is there any doubt he'll make the Opening Day roster next season?
In the bottom of the ninth, he allowed a single but quickly got two outs on a double play. After allowing another single, Collins replaced him with Danny Herrera, the left-handed screwballer acquired yesterday in the Francisco Rodriguez trade. He used his slow stuff to notch a strikeout to end the game. I'll cut him some slack for the ridiculously flat brim on his hat since he just joined the team.
SB Nation Coverage
* Traditional Recap
* Boxscore
* Amazin' Avenue Gamethread
* Federal Baseball Gamethread
Win Probability Added
Big winners: David Wright, +27.5% WPA
Big losers: Mike Nickeas, -3.3% WPA
Teh aw3s0mest play: David Wright three-run bomb in the first, +22.4% WPA
Teh sux0rest play: Michael Morse rib-eye single int he first, -7.7% WPA
Total pitcher WPA: +12.3% WPA
Total batter WPA: +37.7% WPA
GWRBI!: Nick Evans
Game Thread Roll Call
Nice job by CTRefJay; his effort in the game thread embiggens us all.
| Num | Name | # of Posts |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | CTRefJay | 115 |
| 2 | MetsFan4Decades | 115 |
| 3 | BurleighGrimes | 104 |
| 4 | sj10689 | 74 |
| 5 | fxcarden | 54 |
| 6 | aparkermarshall | 46 |
| 7 | santana9237 | 33 |
| 8 | Steve Schreiber | 28 |
| 9 | Seaver73 | 27 |
| 10 | feslenraster | 26 |
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Comments
RAmen
Now that was fun.
Dickey finally got some run support. Multi HR game.
Debut of our new BP arms.
It’s the little things this last month.
Anybody watching the postgame?
What bullshit was Bobby O just peddling there? Talking about getting rid of selfish players?
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I switched to the Yankees' game to avoid Ojeda.
Sounds pretty awful.
by Chris McShane on Sep 2, 2011 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Not watching but this is not the first time he's said this
He is kind of dumb.
by graves9 on Sep 2, 2011 9:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yes, I heard it.
He was saying something to that effect. And as others have commented, not the first time I’ve heard that.
by MetsFan4Decades on Sep 2, 2011 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I was kind of tuning it out and caught the tail end about
“getting rid of two selfish players from the clubhouse and now there’s nobody selfish on the team”.
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by Steve Schreiber on Sep 2, 2011 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously?
I know he was going on about how there can be complacent veterans this time of year but that’s straight up garbage.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
It's kind of ironic
considering all of the positive press Beltran got from Collins about his leadership and his role mentoring all the young players. I mean, does a selfish guy help out Angel Pagan and Lucas Duda and all of the other guys he supposedly worked with? I don’t think so.
It’s not like Bobby O’s even the clubhouse with the players. He works in the studio in midtown Manhattan…I guess the lesson is to take what he’s saying with a huge grain of salt.
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by Steve Schreiber on Sep 2, 2011 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
was he talking about Beltran? and who would the other guy be? K-Rod?
by all accounts, those two were model citizens, helping out teammates as much as possible. And, maybe not for KRod, but Beltran has ALWAYS been a model citizen and great teammate.
Stick to pitching, Bobby.
The two so called selfish guys he was talking about
are Castillo and Perez I believe not Beltran. Bobby praised Carlos earlier this year for his leadership.
by graves9 on Sep 2, 2011 10:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Okay, yeah.
That makes more sense, I guess. The way he phrased it, it sounded like he said this year and I took that as the two guys they dealt in the midseason (Beltran and K-Rod). Completely forgot about Castillo and Perez (thank Dickey the brainwashing has taken affect!)
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by Steve Schreiber on Sep 2, 2011 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
even Castillo being selfish is a stretch to me
I always felt bad for that guy because he was just old and got paid too much…not any fault of his own. Omar signed him to that awful contract and he really tried to play for the Mets. he didn’t do it well, but he tried.
Perez, on the other hand, was a selfish abortion of a teammate, holding the team hostage and refusing minor league trips, etc.
Abortion? You are too kind
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Agreed wrt Castillo.
Unless Bobby knows something we don’t know, which I highly doubt.
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by Steve Schreiber on Sep 2, 2011 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Holding the team hostage by exercising his contractually given rights?
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
certainly.
because, for him, it was either pitch in the minors so he can get better to pitch in the big leagues…or stay banished in the bullpen. all the while, the Mets could have used another roster spot. and, at the same time, it’s not like his salary freezes on a trip to the minors. he had NO reason to refuse a trip other than spite or pride.
Perez’s actions were nothing but selfish.
Agreed
He was being paid in any case. Accepting a demotion to the Minors, he still would have gotten the $12 million dollars owed to him, and maybe he might have figured something out. Not accepting a demotion, he rotted in the bullpen and hurt both himself and the team. Electing to rot in the bullpen was a lose/lose situation for everyone, while accepting a temporary demotion to AAA would have benefited everyone.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 3, 2011 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I hate defending the guy
but he would have to accept a downgrade in lifestyle. No one likes riding a bus hours at a time with the hopes that he can somehow “figure it out”.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
It's an investment into his future
Say he did figure something out. Spending X amount of time on bus rides for (at that point) four, five months < Turning your career around by some margin, and ensuring a ‘healthy’ baseball salary in the future.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 3, 2011 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions
An analogy is going back to school to get an advanced degree
Do you have to quit your job in order to make time for school? In some cases; in any event, your free time diminishes by a large margin. When everything is said and done, and presumably you graduate, you’re a great deal more employable, and likely can make a larger salary.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 3, 2011 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I think this is all moot anyway,
because I think Boras was dictating it. And you can say, well, Ollie has ultimate responsibility, but let’s face it, Ollie is kind of stupid. Thinking it through for himself might be a bit much to ask.
Even for Boras, it was short sighted
I mean, at the time, nobody in their right mind would have given Ollie another contract. By telling him to not accept a demotion to the Minors, and causing him to be banished to the bullpen, his “level of production” stayed the same, at the crappy level it was at. By telling him to go to the Minors, he could have rebuilt some value, in the slim chance that he figured something out down there. As he is now, he’s a cast-off who no team in their right mind is going to offer a contract to, perhaps even in the Minor Leagues. If he got more consistent in the Minors, had he gone, maybe he shows he can be a LOOGY, and is given a contract by somebody as a LOOGY. Is it a less prestigious position, and a huge paycut? Sure, but something is better than nothing.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 3, 2011 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Or he figured his career was over either way
so he told his client to pitch when asked, do his side sessions, and ride it out.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
As a youngish lefty, there will always be the Brian Sabeans of the baseball world...
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 3, 2011 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions
As a youngish lefty,
he’s not nearly old enough for Brian Sabean to sign.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Sep 3, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
If only he was a former Brave
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 3, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
not to mention selfish
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
That's kind of the definition of selfish, though, right?
Not saying he didn’t have the right to do it, or even that I wouldn’t have done the same thing. But, right or wrong, putting your own comfort/lifestyle ahead of the good of the team paying you $12 million is certainly selfish.
by Bieser's Balk on Sep 3, 2011 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions
It might be selfish
but does that make him an “abortion of a teammate”? Basically he owed the team nothing more that going out and pitching when called upon and maintaining his health to the best of his ability. That’s what he was paid to do – not to accept a voluntary demotion.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
yes, it does make him a terrible teammate
his actions negatively effected the Mets. his refusal to go to the minor leagues to refine his pitching led to his banishment to the bullpen, where he would only be used as a last resort and and in blow outs; the Mets essentially played with a 24 man roster.
how is that in the interest of the team? how is that being a good teammate? defend his actions all you want as being “within his rights as a player” but that doesn’t make him a good teammate. in fact, it makes him a horrible one and it boggles my mind that you are trying to defend him.
Exercising an MLBPA granted right does not make one an abhorrent teammate.
It might make him stubborn, disillusioned, or a bit selfish, but not a horrible person.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
it does make him a horrible teammate
and a horribly selfish person. he’s “defended” by his right, but he is still actively hurting the team. this makes him a good teammate?
Perez loses nothing by accepting a trip to the minors. some pride, maybe. but if he does what he’s supposed to do, he gets back to the majors, pitches well, and still has a job this season.
As stated above
he loses a lifestyle. And you can’t just assume that if he goes to the minors that he figures it out and has success again. In all likelihood his career was done either way. Also, it’s not like his presence not he roster was the reason the Mets didn’t have a good year. If you have a problem with players being able to reject a demotion after a certain amount of time in the MLB, then you have an issue with the MLBPA, not Perez. Hate the game, not the player.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
He becomes a Minor League player
It’s not as if his air-conditioned bus rides on chartered buses are Holocaust cattle cars and his three star hotels are disease ridden shit holes- not saying you Godwined anything but perspective of rich people here, you know.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 3, 2011 2:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I have a problem with a player putting himself before the team
loses a lifestyle? please kindly shut up. he had made over $24M at the Mets’ expense. I’m sure that will soften any “blow” to his lifestyle that a demotion will bring. it’s also not like he all of a sudden goes to a third world country to play baseball, either.
his actions may be within his right, but they make him a bad teammate. I don’t see how you can argue this.
Then the MLBPA gives every MLB player the right to be a bad teammate.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
Who are all these players voluntarily accepting demotions?
Steve Trachsel and….
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
You seem to be conflating his MLBPA given rights with his being a bad teammate.
They are two completely different things. He can and did exercise his rights but that doesn’t mean he’s free from criticism. He held a roster spot that could’ve been used by a better player hostage. That’s the definition of selfish and being a bad teammate.
And frankly, he’d only be “losing his lifestyle” for a few weeks likely. He’d likely be recalled at some point. And he lost his lifestyle anway, to boot! He was playing in AA with the Nats this year.
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by Steve Schreiber on Sep 3, 2011 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If only I could live the lifestyle of a AA player...
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 3, 2011 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not saying he's beyond reproach (I did call him stubborn, disillusioned, and a bit selfish).
But to call him without a shadow of a doubt an “abortion of a teammate” and horrible person isn’t right either.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
I agree with you 100% Steve
LOLie is a terrible teammate, and selfish person. I sure wouldn’t want him in my organization anywhere.
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
True he tried as good as he could,
Pitching coaches messed him up, he had stuff and an unrepeatable delivery. Ban sandy coufax from spring training
Undefeated is the new "Winning".
Duh, undefeated....
by The real Julio from Paterson on Sep 3, 2011 3:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Sorry but it does make him a pretty despicable person.
Sure, it’s his right not to go but if somebody asks you to do something to help the team and you don’t do it, you’re officially hurting the team. Ollie hurt the team and hurt his teammates. How does this not make him a bad teammate?
Again, we’re not debating his MLBPA given rights…those are perfectly legal. However, just because he has the right to reject a demotion, doesn’t give him immunity.
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by Steve Schreiber on Sep 3, 2011 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Your presupposing the conclusion. He's a horrible teammate/person who refused demotion and the only people who refuse demotions are horrible teammates/persons.
To us an analogy:
Say I have a plane ticket which reserves the window seat for me. This ticket gives me the right to that seat for the flight. I’m in my seat when the person who has the ticket to the seat next to me asks politely to switch seats. I refuse the demotion in seating because I like my seat and I have the right to refuse the downgrade. Refusing the demotion does not make me a horrible co-flight-passenger and it certainly doesn’t make me a horrible person.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
not a proper analogy
your refusal doesn’t affect the whole flight, nor is your neighbor someone you work with and see everyday.
in Perez’s situation, the team as whole benefits if he accepts a demotion. in yours, only your neighbor does.
a proper analogy would be
the co-pilot is wildly unprepared for a real flight and cannot adequately perform his duties. the airline asks him to go back to flight school or whatever for a few weeks to brush up, all while still getting paid his normal salary.
the co-pilot then will have the right to refuse and does refuse. now he is negatively affecting everyone on the plane (their safety). this makes him a bad person, putting his airline (the team) at risk and pissing off the passengers (the fans).
by theamato on Sep 3, 2011 2:48 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
terrible analogy
a better analogy would be that you bought a window seat, but you weigh 450 pounds and the pilot comes back and politely asks you if you can switch to an aisle seat because if you sit by the window, you’re gonna unbalance the plane which could make it difficult to land. You say “fuck that, I paid for this window seat, and I don’t give a shit if I cause it to crash.”
2009 Did Not Happen
That analogy doesn't work, mainly because
the people on the plane aren’t your teammates. They’re just strangers on an airplane. The only people affected in this scenario are you and the person who wants to switch with you.
The rest of the people on the plane couldn’t give a damn. Not true on a baseball team, where there are only 25 roster spots and each one needs to pull some weight in order to win games.
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by Steve Schreiber on Sep 3, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
It makes him a despicable person?
I’m sure we all like to think of ourselves as paragons of selflessness, but let’s be real here. The guy didn’t have to do anything he didn’t want to. He didn’t want to play minor league ball, he wanted to stay in the majors and embarrass himself. Why is he obligated to do something he really doesn’t want to do for other people? Sure, it makes him selfish and a bad teammate, but a bad person? It’s baseball, he’s not killing people. I know if there was something I hated, I wouldn’t do it just because a bunch of other people wanted me to.
yea but Evan_S and Ogre
the guy gets paid millions to play a GAME. and when you just don’t have it any more walk away, or at least don’t hinder your teams while they try and improve.
LOLie was totally selfish and immature, even if it was totally within his rights to be such.
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
I don't think he's a terrible person
and people who say that are being hyperbolic. But selfish, absolutely. Terrible teammate, absolutely.
2009 Did Not Happen
ok thanks for correcting me CJm
I didn’t mean he’s a terrible person, but he is certainly a bad teammate and exhibited bad personality; it just comes OFF as such because of his behaviors, when baseball is supposed to be a “team sport”.
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Sep 3, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay.
I get the argument of saying he’s not a bad person. There’s not enough information available to properly judge that. But I don’t see how we can argue that in this situation, he was not a bad teammate. The guy basically gave a giant middle finger to the organization that graciously pays his salary, his teammates who work hard to try to win games and the fans who go to games and basically pay his salary.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Sep 3, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
just one question
why are we arguing about LOLie anyway? he’s off this team and let’s just forget about this guy already…
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Sep 3, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
The original post I responded to called him an "abortion of a teammate" and insinuated that he was a despicable person.
I didn’t think that was fair, that’s all.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
you have the God-given right to walk past a person who is on fire and not try to help them
still makes you a terrible person if you do it.
2009 Did Not Happen
wtf is he on about
we already got rid of beltran
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by Cory Braiterman on Sep 2, 2011 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions
BTW I just checked in chrome, which has a counter for how many times a word comes up
and my name pops up 29 times. Minus 2 for my name in the sbnation bar and the post after the game… I DEMAND I MAKE THE TOP 10 COMMENTS SECTION DANGNABBET
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by Cory Braiterman on Sep 2, 2011 10:00 PM EDT reply actions
I would get Google Chrome
If only I wasn’t convinced that Google is spying on us (Apple has broken ground on that niche a while ago)
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
Note: All links within my sig will open in a new window.
Important thing about Sabermetrics and Statistics - they are essential to understanding the fundamentals of baseball analysis and its intricacies, but they can not quantify everything that affects the game. Misunderstanding of this key concept is where arguments often begin.
Amazin' Avenue Baseball Mogul (sparbz) - to be updated someday...
The Amazin' Avenue Rec-ord Book (4/17/2011 edition)
Firefox baby
Best one out there. safe and secure at home with firefox
This is funny because the newest Firefox upgrades are amusingly similar to Chrome.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
?
The rapid upgrade system is similar to Chrome (meaning every few weeks instead of months or a year in between updates), but which upgrades make it more like Chrome?
I use both by the way. And if it wasn’t so slow by comparison, Safari is awesome for OS X Lion. I hope Chrome and Firefox utilize Lion in future updates.
I didn't even comment in the gamethread, and I still have more comments than the entire Marlins thread
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 3, 2011 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Herrera put up sick minor league numbers
he should be a fine LOOGY.
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
I know it didn't end up costing them, but
why is Terry continuing to bring Igarashi in tight spots? I mean bring him in with Zimmerman coming up with a runner on base is pretty dopey. Iggy has been awful his entire tenure here and particularily when he comes in with guys on base. Hey Terry just use him up or down by a half dozen runs and maybe that’s too close. Nice to see Stinson and Hererra pitch well in their debuts as Mets.
by graves9 on Sep 2, 2011 10:02 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Using him makes less sense considering we're kind of auditioning for 2012 BP spots, possibly
Stinson and Herrera got in the game, but it’s the process that’s bad.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 3, 2011 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions
He started okay until the hammy
And he is actully okay with men on base when not overexposed
Undefeated is the new "Winning".
Duh, undefeated....
by The real Julio from Paterson on Sep 3, 2011 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Right, but there's a 0% chance he gets re-signed for 2012
Now’s the time to showcase rookies and candidates for next season. Put Stinson or Herrera in that spot, see if they can handle the pressure, you know?
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 3, 2011 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions
True
But Terry has to play his best deck. I’m not an iggy guy I hate rocket girl but if he feels it play to win. Putting guys in position to succeed is his job…
Undefeated is the new "Winning".
Duh, undefeated....
by The real Julio from Paterson on Sep 3, 2011 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Putting Igarashi in any position where the oposing team could conceivably come back - let alone with a man on
is not a position to succeed.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
I have no clue why this guy is even still HERE
he throws hard, so what? I can swing a stick…so, what’s the difference?
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
Create a winning culture at all costs is his job
That’s his credibility…
Undefeated is the new "Winning".
Duh, undefeated....
by The real Julio from Paterson on Sep 3, 2011 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
Thing is, and I was going to type a similar sentiment in that last post, conceding that it’d look poor for the bullpen to cough away another game- especially another Dickey start!- Ryota Igarashi is far from the best man to go to if the team needs a sure-fire shutdown performance.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 3, 2011 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I got u
But tc has to play business as usual and the business is to manage the pen. We all killed Jerry about how he used pf and fer neive he is showing the kids that u better be ready when I tap u bitxhes….
Undefeated is the new "Winning".
Duh, undefeated....
by The real Julio from Paterson on Sep 3, 2011 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Using Igarashi is kind of the same as using Sheffield or Tatis in September 2009
Again, it’s a moot point since everything worked out, but it’s a process thing.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 3, 2011 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Winning culture
Let’s get what we can a dump the bum
Undefeated is the new "Winning".
Duh, undefeated....
by The real Julio from Paterson on Sep 3, 2011 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions
How is using one of your worst bullpen arms
creating a “winning culture”?
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
He did his thing no...
Undefeated is the new "Winning".
Duh, undefeated....
by The real Julio from Paterson on Sep 3, 2011 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Most of the time, he doesn't
That’s what we’re saying. It worked out tonight good, yes, but if you (not you specifically, just in general) want to say Terry is putting him out there so we win as many games as possible, it doesn’t work out because Toyota Irrigation has been pretty bad most (if not all) of the year.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
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3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 3, 2011 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Against all odds and expectations.
Again, what BDMF is saying is that Collins decision there was bad process.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
He's been ok with men on base at times
It’s a feel thing. That’s being there and seeing guys not just crunching numbers
Undefeated is the new "Winning".
Duh, undefeated....
by The real Julio from Paterson on Sep 3, 2011 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions
With runners in scoring position,
batters are hitting .314/.417/.373 off of him. When it’s late and close, .409/.536/.455. When it’s tied, .333/.429/.333. When the Mets are ahead, .333/.429/.500. When the Mets are behind, .279/.392 /.384.
Those are all small sample sizes (him in a tie game situation are only 15 at-bats, for example), but there’s a reason he’s faced 25 batters in high leverage situations, as opposed to 93 in low leverage situations. Igarashi is many things, but successful in the MLB in any meaningful way is not one of them.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
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3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 3, 2011 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Igarashi has 29 IR's and 15 IS's in 58.1 Innings.
That’s more than 50%. That’s not being OK with mean on.
But I guess you really have be there to get it…
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
Maybe he had a protien skake or tc was protecting
His future guys….idk but it wrked
Undefeated is the new "Winning".
Duh, undefeated....
by The real Julio from Paterson on Sep 3, 2011 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Saying "well it worked" doesn't make it a good move.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
by Ogre39666 on Sep 3, 2011 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Baseball is a feeling game....
You go on hunches sometimes….
Undefeated is the new "Winning".
Duh, undefeated....
by The real Julio from Paterson on Sep 3, 2011 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions
This is exactly the type pf mentality that boggles the mind.
It’s like Jerry saying that statistics are useless because you never know when you’ll get the 1 out of 10 instead of the 9. Baseball is a game of runs and outs. Not feelings, hunches, glints of the eye, fire of the belly, or whatever made up term for irrationality you like.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
Stats are important but sometimes
The guys we put in charge know what to do
Undefeated is the new "Winning".
Duh, undefeated....
by The real Julio from Paterson on Sep 3, 2011 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions
So managers have a magic ability to know better than facts...
Again, illogical.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
They live and breath it so yes..
Your not considering the human factor, this ain’t a video game
Undefeated is the new "Winning".
Duh, undefeated....
by The real Julio from Paterson on Sep 3, 2011 2:06 AM EDT up reply actions
There is no preternatural "Human Factor"
As far as we know, nobody in the bullpen was banged up, sick, unable to pitch, etc. Putting Igarashi in is playing Russian Roulette, in effect. He didn’t shoot himself this time (Dumb Luck, being the result of Bad Process + Good Outcome), but why would you play Russian Roulette in the first place? Not doing so is Deserved Success (Good Process + Good Outcome)
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 3, 2011 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions
What human factor?
The ability to make stupid decisions based on blind faith?
Tell me, if there was a machine that 45% of the time gave you a nice haircut, but 55% of the time cut off the top of your head from your eye sockets up, would you disregard the percentages if it “felt right” in you gut?
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
And to go further with my anology:
Say you used my machine once without knowing the odd and it gave you a nice haircut. Afterwards I tell you that 55% of the time it’s cuts off the top half of the user’s skull. When it came time for you to get another haircut, would you use it again because “it worked” last time, or would you go to a barber who 99% of the time doesn’t hurt you in any way?
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
It was his time and he delivered
Let it go he’s in the bullpen to play
Undefeated is the new "Winning".
Duh, undefeated....
by The real Julio from Paterson on Sep 3, 2011 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Hunches are Dumb luck (Bad Process + Good Outcome)
The optimum thing is to have deserved success (Good Process + Good Outcome)
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 3, 2011 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Not really before advanced stats
Guys won with their guts…that’s why guys that played run the team and the stat nerrds run the from office
Undefeated is the new "Winning".
Duh, undefeated....
by The real Julio from Paterson on Sep 3, 2011 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions
No, people won through a combination of dumb luck and deserved success
Deserved success (Good Process + Good Outcome) should be the goal striven to. Dumb Luck, the best, most satisfactory ending to a poorly made decision.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 3, 2011 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions
These guys are major leaguers for
A reason and the good managers know how to put guys in a position to suceed
Undefeated is the new "Winning".
Duh, undefeated....
by The real Julio from Paterson on Sep 3, 2011 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes
And the point is that Terry Collins, by using Igarashi is not:
A) Using his best relief pitcher in a gambit to win games and create a winning environment
B) Making the most of more or less meaningless September games by testing the mettle of players who will be on the team in 2012.
In any way you measure it, he fails, and blundered into dumb luck. Say Igarashi gives up a two-run home run to Mike Morse. Suddenly, it’s a 7-5 game, and the Marlins are right back in it.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 3, 2011 2:09 AM EDT up reply actions
He didn't though
Undefeated is the new "Winning".
Duh, undefeated....
by The real Julio from Paterson on Sep 3, 2011 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions
No, he didn't- DUMB LUCK
Why gamble on DUMB LUCK when you can almost be assured with DESERVED SUCCESS?
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 3, 2011 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions
So I guess you still use telegraphs and horse and buggies?
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
That's not fair
Have u ever been in a situation where u knew a splitter would get an aggressive asshole out it’s match ups hunches and true management of who’s available. Terry looks these guys in the eye and challenges them…
Undefeated is the new "Winning".
Duh, undefeated....
by The real Julio from Paterson on Sep 3, 2011 2:12 AM EDT up reply actions
What you're describing
Putting in a guy who throws a splitter to face an aggressive hitter who swings at bad pitches like that is not hunches and dumb luck. That’s an example of what we want, DESERVED SUCCESS- he knows this guy swings and misses too much at that breaking pitch, so he puts him in, and what do you know, the batter strikes out.
A hunch would be putting in a pitcher who throws pitches that hitter is really good at hitting, guessing that the hitter will not expect that. That’s a case of either DUMB LUCK- the batter struck out, even though the manager made a stupid move- or POETIC JUSTICE- the batter got a hit, and the manager looks dumb for putting in the wrong pitcher for that situation.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 3, 2011 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Lokking someone in the eye and challenging them doesn't magically make them better.
And how Collins can look Igarashi in the eye all the way from the dugout to the bullpen is beyond me.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
Sometimes guys playing for their career
Can get it done, and tonight he did…
Undefeated is the new "Winning".
Duh, undefeated....
by The real Julio from Paterson on Sep 3, 2011 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Which plays to the other point that is being made:
Igarashi is not going to be a Met in 2012. Even if he said he’s play for free (something the MLBPA would not allow), he wouldn’t be a Met. Using him, as opposed to throwing Stinson, or Herrera, or even Beato (even though we have a good idea of his capabilities) is more important for meaningless September baseball than giving Igarashi his ABs for the week.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 3, 2011 2:27 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Use him for the w that's all
Undefeated is the new "Winning".
Duh, undefeated....
by The real Julio from Paterson on Sep 3, 2011 2:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Which plays to the other point that is being made:
If you’re playing for the win (which is fine), Igarashi is not the man to use there.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 3, 2011 2:36 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Why not u know better than tc
Undefeated is the new "Winning".
Duh, undefeated....
by The real Julio from Paterson on Sep 3, 2011 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Idk bro
Undefeated is the new "Winning".
Duh, undefeated....
by The real Julio from Paterson on Sep 3, 2011 2:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Igarashi puts mean on base. A lot. That's not arguable.
You don’t use a guy who doesn’t do his job well if it can be avoided – especially when it serves the team better to see what young players who might be with the team next year can do.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
Can't we just accept that managers
Not named Jerry know what their doing sometimes, it worked let it go..
Undefeated is the new "Winning".
Duh, undefeated....
by The real Julio from Paterson on Sep 3, 2011 2:49 AM EDT up reply actions
I remember davey was the first to use
Practical stats regularly
Undefeated is the new "Winning".
Duh, undefeated....
by The real Julio from Paterson on Sep 3, 2011 2:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Nobody is arguing that it didn't work
It clearly did. You shouldn’t go into situations relying on luck, as opposed to preparedness is the point. When you rely on luck, and it works out, it’s simply dumb luck, and luck is fickle.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 3, 2011 3:18 AM EDT up reply actions
It's not meaningless
It never is, players want to win, u want to keep Reyes win
Undefeated is the new "Winning".
Duh, undefeated....
by The real Julio from Paterson on Sep 3, 2011 2:36 AM EDT up reply actions
except what's the hunch on Igarashi???
what has this clown shown but the inability to pitch at the big league level? (at least in a Mets’ uniform, anyway)
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
Let's say a team has Albert Pujols and Chin-lung Hu on the bench. Both are healthy, Pujols was just gettng a rest day.
It’s the bottom of the ninth, they’re down by 3 with the bases loaded and the pitcher’s spot is up. The manager decides to use Hu because he feels Pujols will be rusty off the bench, and Hu hits a game winning grand slam, is that a smart decision?
Hint: no, no it’s not.
Also I love Tejada...
Undefeated is the new "Winning".
Duh, undefeated....
by The real Julio from Paterson on Sep 3, 2011 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Is the title of this post
One of those USQ’s?
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
Note: All links within my sig will open in a new window.
Important thing about Sabermetrics and Statistics - they are essential to understanding the fundamentals of baseball analysis and its intricacies, but they can not quantify everything that affects the game. Misunderstanding of this key concept is where arguments often begin.
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it was very intentional
The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Sep 2, 2011 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah, it was a rhetorical question.
Well, sort of
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
Note: All links within my sig will open in a new window.
Important thing about Sabermetrics and Statistics - they are essential to understanding the fundamentals of baseball analysis and its intricacies, but they can not quantify everything that affects the game. Misunderstanding of this key concept is where arguments often begin.
Amazin' Avenue Baseball Mogul (sparbz) - to be updated someday...
The Amazin' Avenue Rec-ord Book (4/17/2011 edition)
I want Josh Satin now
Not three injuries from now.
"I didn't come out of a cereal box." --Bob Dylan
by isles732 on Sep 2, 2011 10:06 PM EDT via iPhone app reply actions
Who?
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 3, 2011 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Well that was fun
I appreciate actually seeing September games used to evaluate young talent when we are out of contention
"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage
by blueandorange4life on Sep 2, 2011 10:17 PM EDT reply actions
I'm down with a guy who has a look, and is committed to his look
Plus, the giant hat with the flat brim is just amusing, so there’s that.
I suddenly feel like I’m channeling Ted Berg.
Duda's shot was a BOMB
man I like his bat. hope he could play something that can pass for defense cause that bat is only going to get better, methinks. you don’t mistake yourself into hitting bombs like he does.
Dah fuck...
Wright looking like a reincarnation of his 2006 self lately.
I still thought he was broked
Irrational Mets fan known for memorable ranting and raving, when things inevitably go wrong.
he still can't play defense.
but the offense looks to be back. 2007 levels in BB%, a K% lower than 2009 and 2010. Swinging Strike % is down. offensively, signs point up (as they should for a guy who is 28 going on 29).
defensively, though, Wright looks worse than ever. I wish we didn’t have a giant overpaid LF, because I would seriously consider moving Wright off of 3B and to the outfield. he just doesn’t have the quickness or range to play 3B but he can still run well enough to play an LF that doesn’t kill the team (Ryan Braun levels, like).
Just got back from the game
My in-game winning streak in DC is up to 10, and haven’t seen the Mets lose here since ’05. I lobby a babysitter/ticket fund be set up so that I can attend all games in person.
Those homers were some sweet shots, especially the Duda won. Still confused about the mystery guy who hit that second one, though.
I'm going on Sunday
and the Mets have lost 3 or 4 in a row that I’ve been to. Maybe you should come to balance out the forces of nature.
Amazingly, this will be my first baseball game of the season. BY FAR the longest I’ve ever gone w/o attending a game – usually I go opening week. I don’t think I’ve ever made it past May without seeing a game before.
2009 Did Not Happen
Hopefully the kids are alright
Undefeated is the new "Winning".
Duh, undefeated....
by The real Julio from Paterson on Sep 3, 2011 12:27 AM EDT reply actions
Beltran has a homer and 3 (I think, was only half paying attention) RBI
against the Dbacks. If I wasn’t lazy I would go make a McCovey account and ask them how they liking him now.
If he weren't so selfish, he wouldn't have had hurt himself to shirk his job
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 3, 2011 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions
love Beltran
but regardless of how he finishes out the season, this trade was an epic win for the Mets. The Giants fall out of contention, Tron gets hurt, and the Mets get a guy who is absolutely lighting it up in the minors.
2009 Did Not Happen
Oh, totally, the trade was fantastic
<3 Beltran, <3 Sandy.
Beltrans heart is in ny
Undefeated is the new "Winning".
Duh, undefeated....
by The real Julio from Paterson on Sep 3, 2011 12:45 AM EDT reply actions
Tejada is a pelotero
Undefeated is the new "Winning".
Duh, undefeated....
by The real Julio from Paterson on Sep 3, 2011 1:59 AM EDT reply actions
would be awesome if Mets and Beltran get back together
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
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