Omar and Out
by Dan Lewis on Sep 3, 2011 10:48 PM EDT
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PrintThe Omar Minaya era is over, and a post-mortem at this late date seems like piling on. No matter -- this is interesting enough to warrant a share, I hope.
Minaya was the Mets GM for six seasons, beginning after the 2004 campaign and extending through last fall. I went through the Mets rosters from 2005-2010 looking for players whose careers were, to repeat the title of this post, "Omar and Out." These players are guys who meet both the criteria below:
(1) The player was brought into the organization by the Omar Minaya regime (that is, after 2005 but before he was canned) and
(2) The player has not played a regular season game, other than for the Mets 2010 or prior, since. That is, the last GM that the player played -- at least at the MLB level -- for was Omar Minaya.
To see the list, and some discussion, hit the jump.
By my count, 63 players went Omar and Out. This does not include two players -- Johan Santana and Pedro Feliciano -- who technically are still eligible for the list. It does, however, include a few players (e.g. Oliver Perez) who are not yet retired, so that line is a bit arbitrary.
The Omar and Out List
Abraham Nunez
Ben Johnson
Brian Daubach
Chris Carter
David Williams
Gerald Williams *
Jose Santiano
Kaz Ishii
Luis Castillo
Oliver Perez
Ramon Martinez (the infielder, not Pedro's brother)
Sandy Alomar Jr
Some notes:
* Gerald "Ice" Williams was a Met in 2004, and declared free agency after the season. So he was, technically, a Jim Duquette Met. But Ice re-signed with the Mets in February of 2005, well after testing the waters. So I included him as a re-acquisition of Omar's. Note that other guys who were acquired by Duq -- Bartolome Fortunato, Eric Valent -- do not make the list, even though they played for Omar and then were out.
+ Both Jesus Feliciano and Luis Hernandez are in the Mets organization. This doesn't exclude them from the list, but FYI.
& Ricky Ledee is, perhaps, the ultimate Omar and Outer. The Dodgers waived Ledee, and his $1.5 million salary (for the full season) in August of 2006. Omar claimed the contract off the waiver wire, and Ledee took 36 plate appearances for the team that year -- 1 homer, 1 double, one single, 4 walks, and a whole lot of outs -- an OPS+ of 7. The Mets let him go after the year, and Ledee signed a contract with the A's that off-season. The A's cut him right before opening day and Ledee ended up latching on with the Mets again. Not willing to believe that he was done, Omar gave Ledee another 43 plate appearances in 2007, with an OPS+ of 81.
Omissions:
Omar's love of journeyman minor league catchers knows no bounds, as evidenced by the inclusion of Raul Casanova on the list above. In 2008, Robinson Cancel made his Mets debut, putting up a 67 OPS+ in 53 plate appearances. The next year he remained a Met -- receiving one PA and earning an out. He was a free agent as of November 2009, and remained so for the entire 2010 season. But this past off-season he signed a minor league deal with the Astros and, somehow, has played in two MLB games. He's 0-6 with a walk and four strikeouts.
Another catcher that avoided the Omar and Out list? Omir Santos. Santos found his way to the Tigers' system, failing to make the majors in 2010. But this year, he's topped Cancel: Santos has played in three games. He's 1-for-8 with a strikeout.
This FanPost was contributed by a member of the community and was not subject to any vetting or approval process. It does not necessarily reflect the opinions, reasoning skills, or attention to grammar and usage rules held by the editors of this site.
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Well done DDL.
God Omar fucking sucked.
Let's go have a beer, Doc.
by Crazy Nyce Dave on Sep 3, 2011 11:00 PM EDT reply actions
Brian Lawrence....ugh. Hated that guy
Nibbles McGee
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only GRISSIONZ
The 2011 Mets- Rock bottom: We haven't reached it yet
They whole thing where
they traded away perfectly capable backup catcher Ramon Castro to keep Omir Santos was an absolutely classic Omar Minaya move.
Hey, those 14.2 innings we got out of Lance Broadway were totally worth it.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Sep 4, 2011 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions
The Lance Broadway jokes, however
Were without a trace of sarcasm worth it.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
At the time, I totally convinced myself Broadway would be made an SP and would be above average
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 5, 2011 12:26 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I threw up in my mouth a little
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 4, 2011 1:35 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Well done.
I’ve thought about compiling a similar list, without the focus on Omar-acquired players. I think it works much better the way you did it.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Sep 4, 2011 1:36 AM EDT reply actions
Sorry for the double post,
but whatever happened to Matt Wise? He had a few good years with the Brewers, pitched a couple of games for the Mets, got hurt, and vanished. Fangraphs doesn’t show him playing anywhere after 2008. Was the injury that severe?
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Sep 4, 2011 1:41 AM EDT reply actions
Wise
Got injured, was non-tendered by the Mets, failed to find a new team, retired right before the 2009 season.
Learn something new every day: http://dlewis.net/nik
This is a bad post
Because it makes me so, so sad.
Otherwise it’s a great job.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
Some perspective
Alderson will probably have three to five guys make his list this year. Some candidates:
Chin-lung Hu, Brad Emaus, Mike Baxter, Chris Young, Miguel Batista, Taylor Buchholz, DJ Carrasco, Blaine Boyer, Dale Thayer, Mike O’Conner (technically), and of course, Jason Isringhausen. Tim Byrdak’s odds of making the list goes up if he resigns w/the team this off-season.
Learn something new every day: http://dlewis.net/nik
I appreciate the comparison
But think that in some ways it’s apples to oranges given the constraints that Sandy & Co. have been under. Omar had a lot looser pursestrings to work with, given that he did not come after Omar.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
I think Baxter and Hu will stick around in AAA.
And quite a few of those guys will play again in the majors – Boyer, O’Connor, Emaus, Buchholz, Baxter, and Hu will all be 30 or under next year. Byrdak and Izzy have pitched well enough to earn a contract from someone for 2012. Of all the players you listed, I think only Batista is a candidate to never play in the majors again. And possibly Young, since he’s injury-prone. The rest are too young to write off so easily as never getting back.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Sep 4, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Alderson knew what he was getting into with Young
He knew it, Young knew it and we as fans knew it. I cant fault him for the Young signing
Insert witty signature here
Kidnapping and attempted murder, actually.
He tried to force his ex to drink rat poison. This was after the car accident in the DR that left 2 women dead.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Sep 5, 2011 2:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I wonder if he's sharing a cell with Ugueth Urbina.
Proud supporter of a New York baseball team and a Boston football team. Yeah, deal with it!
"We don’t listen to the hype. I don’t think we ever have. We really take after our coach and he says ‘When you win, say little. When you lose, say less.'"--Tom Brady
The 2011 New York Mets: I don't know what to describe them as...
Staunch Parishioner Of The First United Church of R.A. Dickey
Ricky Ledee's time as a Met was so forgettable that
I forgot that he inexplicably had not just one but two stints with the team. Mind-boggling. The 04-05 Mets had some atrocious benches, with Gerald Williams, Jose Offerman, Wilson Delgado, Ledee, Michael Tucker and the like getting a ton of at bats. Yuck.
Also, I’m not sure if you forgot him or if you excluded him because of his tragic death, but Jose Lima’s time with the Mets in 2006 was his last major league appearance. I was also thinking of Jeremi Gonzalez, but apparently he threw in 21 games with the Brewers later in 2006 (after the Mets dealt him there for Mike Adams, who went on to become a dominating reliever with the Padres and now Rangers…damn you Omar!).
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
Wait, THAT Mike Adams!?
Well, shit…
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 4, 2011 9:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yes.
THAT Mike Adams.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
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by Steve Schreiber on Sep 4, 2011 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Also 2/4ths of the Rangers good bullpen last year came form us.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.
Who says we don't produce winners?
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Sep 5, 2011 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions
We could have a bullpen consisting of:
Heath Bell
Bobby Parnell
Matt Lindstrom
Mike Adams
Darren O’Day
…
Sigh
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 5, 2011 2:47 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He wasn't "home grown"
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 5, 2011 3:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
But then neither were Adams and O'Day.
Adams was acquired from the Brewers for Jeremi Gonzalez and O’Day was acquired via the Rule V draft in 2009.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Sep 5, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
O'Day first debuted with us
But, yeah, “homegrown” =//= came up as a Met. Point taken.
Imagine the tossdown pen we’d have if Omar didn’t carelessly toss away so many of those guys. And, how we’d be able to trade from that strength to address weaknesses…
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 5, 2011 5:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, really.
Just imagine if Omar didn’t throw away O’Day in favor of a single spot start for Nelson Figueroa, who was DFA’d himself hours later and replaced with a presumably crappier player for the rest of the season (probably like Elmer Dessens or something).
And I’m not even going to get into the rest of Adams, Bell or Linstrom. The O’Day move pissed me off enough at the time and it’s pissing me off right now.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Sep 5, 2011 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
probably replaced by Fernando Nieve
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
Nope...even better.
Casey Freakin’ Fossum. That’s poor, Omar. That’s poor.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
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by Steve Schreiber on Sep 7, 2011 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions
And then Fossum got DFA'd, too.
Forget who for, though.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Sep 7, 2011 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Does it matter?
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 7, 2011 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
for a Takahashi
and that is how we went from Darren O Day to Ken Takahashi in our 2009 bullpen. Ideally, we would have had both…
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
That's right!
I almost forgot about Tak1.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Sep 8, 2011 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't remember Tak1 being any good,
but he really outpitched his FIP that year. Good thing he didn’t get enough time to regress.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Sep 8, 2011 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't forget Joe Smith
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Sep 5, 2011 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions
You gotta admit, that was a pretty good trade for us
Jeremy Reed was the best 4th outfielder in club history
Bobby Baseball - The future of Amazin' Avenue.
by Bobby Baseball on Sep 5, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Corey Sullivan weeps softly
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Sep 5, 2011 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
they had such a future with us
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
Further sigh
I miss Joe. He was kind of pretty awesome.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 5, 2011 3:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Steve, you genuinely just ruined my day with this info.
But all my hate is directed at Omar, not you.
Let's go have a beer, Doc.
by Crazy Nyce Dave on Sep 5, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
my favorites is the lame fringe Japanese players....
this is why they should at least make an attempt(even if its a farce) at Yu Darvish.
This list makes me laugh and cry at the same time and hope it wakes Mets’ fans up about the Wright/Reyes/Beltran era: somehow this team played pretty well despite the list of also-rans.
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
Omar was a circus
That needed a tent
by RudyTerrasasWarRoom on Sep 5, 2011 2:50 PM EDT reply actions
You know, I'm not at all convinced this list is a bad thing
Mostly this is a list of gambles that didn’t pan out, fair enough — but GMs absolutely should be gambling on players all the time. Omar’s problem was often with the bad gambles he didn’t cut bait on soon enough.
As you say, it does help us to see which types of players he consistently overvalued in filling out the roster, like veteran catchers, but I don’t see too many hanging offenses here (apart from who was dealt to pick up some of these guys, a slightly separate topic from whether these guys paid off or not).
The saddest part is
In the rare instances that these fliers worked out, they would be signed to onerous extensions.
@metsflu: Why did you decide to grow a beard?
@RADickey43: Dont you understand, the beard grew me.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Omar actually call a PRESS CONFERENCE when he signed Trot Nixon?
Let's go have a beer, Doc.
He thought we were inking the former president to a deal
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 5, 2011 5:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I don't see
Smithtown’s Own on this list.
What's the score, boys?
What did Bugs Bunny do?
What's with the Carrot League baseball today?
by StorkFan on Sep 5, 2011 10:30 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Couldn't spell his name
Nah, just an oversight. Thats two I missed.
Learn something new every day: http://dlewis.net/nik
Another: Jeff Conine?
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 6, 2011 9:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
lmfao @ these idiots
Omar Minaya= took a 20 games under .500 team and turned it into the best team in baseball in 2006.
2005-2008= the best record in the NL.
Had our idiot ownership traded for Manny in 2008, we win the division walking away.
Calling Omar a disaster? Wait until the Depodesta draft picks and free agent signings wind up pumping gas in a few years….
Oh, Brett...
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 7, 2011 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Omar?
Is that you?
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Sep 7, 2011 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd respond with something intelligent and witty
about how you were wrong, but it’s obvious you won’t listen, if you’re even not trolling us.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Sep 7, 2011 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, we had some amazing players that made the team great
but we paired those players with the worst players – see above list – or old, injury prone players who predictably broke down
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
and we are in a crappy situation now
because Omar saw good results and assumed he had found a good process, so he kept overpaying for guys who are terrible. He is the one who committed ~75 million dollars (out of ~140) of the 2011 Mets roster on the following guys who didn’t play or sucked: Santana, Bay, Ollie, Castillo, Igarashi, GMJ (owed a million) and what we paid for KRod.
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
So how was your 5 year nap?
Sorry about the accident, I hope your post-coma rehab works out great.
It's a triumph of number crunching over the human spirit...aaaaaand, it’s about time. -- Play-by-Play Announcer, The Simpsons.
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