keystoner?

by keith's stash (stache) on Sep 7, 2011 6:35 PM EDT

Ok, we all (hopefully) want our very own lil rapper, the one who throws up a claw for every hit he gets back next year. The fact he looks slightly like the predator with his dreds flopping around only strengthens his case. With a healthy September, he is coasting to around 6 WAR, just like the three best seasons of his career, 2006-2008. So, hamstring issues aside, we can only hope to see him in a Los Mets uniform again next year.

Second base, in addition to other positions on the diamond, is open to competition, argument, trade possibilities, etc

Who is the Mets best option, offensively, defensively, financially and developmentally for the future? This is where it gets a little murky---between Ruben Tejada, Daniel Murphy, Justin Turner, Reese Havens, Jordany Valdespin--we have options but which is best for the franchise, and most importantly, to win games?

AVG OBP SLG OPS Age

Tejada .281 .366 .337 .703 21

Murphy .320 .362 .448 .809 26

Turner .262 .331 .356 .687 26

Havens .289 .372 .455 .827 24 @AA Binghamton

Valdespin .294 .333 .468 .801 23 @AA and AAA (37 SB)

Poll

Who should be the Mets second baseman going into the 2012 season?

Tejada

11 votes

Murphy

55 votes

Turner

0 votes

Havens

10 votes

Valdespin

1 votes

77 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost was contributed by a member of the community and was not subject to any vetting or approval process. It does not necessarily reflect the opinions, reasoning skills, or attention to grammar and usage rules held by the editors of this site.

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Comments

I voted for Murphy, natch

But really anyone besides Turner is fine with me. If Turner is playing in a Mets uniform next year it means something went badly wrong as far as I’m concerned — they really should’ve sold high on him already.

by anonymous on Sep 7, 2011 7:07 PM EDT reply actions

I agree

But there are a couple other sell high candidates on that list as well. Tejada is never going to sniff 366 obp again, and while I like Murphy, I would bet on a 320 avg again either.

groop·think/ˈgro͞opˌTHiNGk/
Preferably spelled in all caps
Noun: The practice of thinking or making decisions as a group, such as no i in trading.

by Dandy Salderson on Sep 7, 2011 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions

Tejada's only 21, though

We really don’t have any good idea yet how he’ll develop, or what his true talent level against major-league pitching is. Murphy just seems like selling low at this point — even aside from the injuries, he’s the kind of guy that the market doesn’t value appropriately — but of course, it’s not like he’s untouchable given the right offer.

by anonymous on Sep 7, 2011 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions

during the right July trading season

Murph would garner a lot of attention as a useful bat that can play all over the place. Mark DeRosa was once the most ballyhooed player on the trade market

2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!

by astromets on Sep 7, 2011 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions

Problem with Tejada is that he never showed any sign of power, even in the minors.

ISO around .050 and .300 SLG put him in disadvantage, despite his OBP. Even if he posts an above average defense, his upside would be limited.

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The Unwritten Rules of AA

by Michkin on Sep 8, 2011 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions

I think Tejada can be a young Luis Castillo type of player

which is pretty good in this offense depressed environment.

by secret defense on Sep 8, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions

but there is no reason to think he will be this small his whole career

He has room to grow power-wise, I don’t see why he can’t be a doubles hitter with like 1-3 HRs a year. It won’t be a great ISO, but I can see it at least doubling

2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!

by astromets on Sep 8, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions

why not?

He has great plate discipline and a line drive swing?

2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!

by astromets on Sep 7, 2011 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions

Which one?

groop·think/ˈgro͞opˌTHiNGk/
Preferably spelled in all caps
Noun: The practice of thinking or making decisions as a group, such as no i in trading.

by Dandy Salderson on Sep 7, 2011 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions

talking bout Tejada

though I guess that describes them both – Tejada just walks more

2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!

by astromets on Sep 7, 2011 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions

If Turner is startign I agree

that said, if hes a bench player nothing went wrong. It just means that they don’t want Tejada to sit on the bench.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.

by Ogre39666 on Sep 7, 2011 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions

I really really love Tejada

I like Murphy too. I would prefer Tejada’s great defense and decent-to-good bat over Murphy’s decent defense and good-to-great hitting. Others disagree and there is a decent debate to be had but really I am happy with either. I like Havens long term but I don’t think he is ready yet. As for Valdespin, I would like to see him in AAA for a bit longer and maybe call him up midseason, but I am not ready to make him the every day second baseman.

And as for Turner I completely agree with anonymous. Great guy, I love watching him and he is a fun player but I don’t think he is anything more than a nice bench guy to have around. Not an everyday second baseman.

Bobby Baseball - The future of Amazin' Avenue.

by Bobby Baseball on Sep 7, 2011 7:11 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

Murphy/Tejada platoon?

by EtSuKe on Sep 7, 2011 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions

I wouldn't

I’d rather Tejada get full time in AAA, He’s still young and developing, and I wouldn’t want to stunt his growth.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 7, 2011 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions

this

we still really don’t know what the final offensive product will be, plus we have other options for a RH 2B platoon partner

2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!

by astromets on Sep 8, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions

same here

Tejada can be pretty good, if they just gave him some more experience in AAA.

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Sep 8, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions

This year he has been an average hitter at 2B/SS at a very young age.

I don’t think it’s common for hitters that good at premium positions to be sent down.

by EtSuKe on Sep 8, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree, the Mets shouldn't send down Tejada

He has already proven he can hit Major League hitting, he just has to prove he can do it consistently. He’s not going to prove that in the minors. I wouldn’t be too upset if he was the Mets backup infielder but I think in order to progress properly he should be playing everyday as our second baseman.

As for Murphy, I don’t think he is part of our long term plan anyway. He can definitely hit, thats for sure. And I doubt that playing every day will make him “good” at any position defensively. For that reason I think he would be better suited off the bench as a super sub. A very strong bench player. He would be like our 6th man of the year for a basketball team.

Turner doesn’t have long term prospects and even right now he isn’t the best option.

I think Havens could be our long term second baseman, but he needs more seasoning in the minors. I see no reason to rush him as I am very content with Tejada.

And as for Valdespin, I honestly don’t know much about him but he seems like a similar player to Tejada.

Bobby Baseball - The future of Amazin' Avenue.

by Bobby Baseball on Sep 8, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions

Tejada definitely isn't proven

He’s still only opsing 700 in 300 PA this season and is still south of .250 BA in under 550 career PA. If that’s all he’s going to be, fine, just make him a backup now, but if he has any potential to improve he should probably be in AAA.

Kicking knowledge in the face.

by BlackOps on Sep 8, 2011 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions

I can't find the exact number but I think in the second half he is hitting ove .300

I know he doesn’t have the most power but thats either gonna come over time or it wont, going to the minors would impact that. He has proven that he CAN hit MLB pitching, he just needs to prove that he can do it consistently. Guys don’t just go on super hot streaks unless they have the ability, and he definitely has the ability to at least get singles and walks and get on base, and obviously he can play defense

Bobby Baseball - The future of Amazin' Avenue.

by Bobby Baseball on Sep 8, 2011 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions

Tejada's 2nd-half #s this year.

.303/.384/.404 in 114 PAs. Compared to .261/.352/.288 in 179 PAs in the first half.

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Sep 8, 2011 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions

and this proves what exactly?

look, I am happy he improved a bit, but I still would like to see better plate discipline, more speed, more pop-etc. at this point Ruben’s a valuable utility player with a bit more experience at 2b/Ss than Turner, Murphy etc.

Ruben’s in the mold of the olden day second basemen (all field, little hit), if the Mets can provide enough consistency and pop in the other positions, I’m okay with Ruben there everyday.

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Sep 10, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions

Didn't say it proved anything.

He just asked for Tejada’s splits.

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Sep 10, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions

ah my bad, sorry bobbyV

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Sep 10, 2011 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions

Better plate discipline?

He has a 10 BB% and 14.4 K%. But I agree: if he can keep his offense in the range it is this year (slightly below average), he will be a valuable piece.

by EtSuKe on Sep 13, 2011 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions

I did not vote because you did not put an option for Joe Morgan

One day, this team is going to kill me.

by fxcarden on Sep 7, 2011 8:49 PM EDT reply actions

Troll

"I love these tacos . If it was up to me I would eat them every night."
-Kevin Burkhardt

by DWRIGHT5RULES on Sep 7, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions

my bad!

Maybe we could package Murph & Gee to grab don’t cha know Cano from the Yanks!

by keith's stash (stache) on Sep 7, 2011 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions

No.

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Sep 7, 2011 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions

don't cha know Cano??

What are you? A Skankees fan?

2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!

by astromets on Sep 8, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions

Untill Havens or Valdespin force their way onto the MLB roster

Murphy should be the starter.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.

by Ogre39666 on Sep 7, 2011 9:05 PM EDT reply actions

has anyone seen the youngsters on the farm?

I know Havens had the rib issue which should be behind him, and he’s 1 of only 3 from that year’s first round that hasn’t made the majors yet.
Valdespin has played more shortstop and I believe he’s a bit more athletic, and his power output doubled this year.

by keith's stash (stache) on Sep 7, 2011 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Why Murphy and not Tejada?

Furhturmore do you keep Tejada as a backup or do you send him down to the minors?

Bobby Baseball - The future of Amazin' Avenue.

by Bobby Baseball on Sep 8, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions

he(Ruben) should have been seasoned more

in the minors to begin with, rather than rushed up due to all the injuries; but that’s ancient history I guess, to me he’s a singles’ hitter who provides good defense at this point in his career. Not saying he can’t develop into something more, and I hope he does. I would like to have second base situation settled in 2012-2013.

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Sep 10, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions

I still voted for Murphy but

I’m coming around on Tejada. He’s been a lot better offensively than he was a year ago (pretty incredible, considering how rushed he was), he’s got the makings of some excellent plate discipline and he plays a solid 2nd base. The reason why I ended up voting for Murphy, though, is that I value his bat more than Tejada’s defense. As a line drive hitter who makes a lot of contact, Murphy’s got a lot of value (to this team and to other teams) and I think it’s a mistake to shove him to the bench. If he can play a competent 2nd base, something that I don’t think is out of his reach, he’d likely be one of the top 5 second basemen in the league and would end up as excellent trade bait should Tejada, Havens or Valdespin look to be ready to make an impact.

As a bench/utility player, Murphy’s value to this team and his trade value take a big time hit.

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You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Sep 7, 2011 9:51 PM EDT reply actions

Further, its not like Dan Uggla is a defensive star either right?

Not that he is a butcher, but he provides a great deal of value to Atlanta even if he is no better than competent. Murphy could do the same for us. Uggla is consistently negative UZR and TZ at 2B, although this I guess feeds back into the debate of what do you value more, fielding or hitting.

"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage

by blueandorange4life on Sep 8, 2011 2:40 AM EDT up reply actions

Exactly.

Personally, I value having the excellent offense more than the defense. As long as Murphy’s not going to make an error on every ball hit to him (surprise! he won’t), then I’m okay with it. His offense will easily make up for any slight defensive shortcomings (and really, the only thing we need to worry about with him is turning the double play and positioning, both of which can be solved with reps. The guy’s got average range and a good glove on the infield).

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Sep 8, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions

That's true but...

I would like to see some things improve for Murphy offensively. His ISO was down this year at around .128 versus .161 in ‘09. It seems like he sacrificed some pop to make more contact, as his O-Contact% was way up at 83.5%. He hit .320, sure, but his BABIP was also .345 versus .284 in ’09. I’d also like to see him walk more, as he BB% was only 5.7%. If his offense is going to be BABIP driven, we may not be so hot on Murphy as we were this year. .

by MetsCity on Sep 8, 2011 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions

Yeah, all are certainly valid points.

I think with the change in approach, he’ll be able to sustain a higher BABIP, certainly higher than his .284 in 09. He’s turned 10% of his 2009 fly balls into line drives and groundballs in 2011, which is a good sign for him sustaining something like this. It would be nice if he did walk a little more, but I think his aggression is what allows him to hit for a higher average and keep his K’s down.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Sep 8, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions

that is why people might say Murphy had an empty batting average this year

but he was really coming around in that regard when he went on that doubles tear up until he got injured. Remember, he missed almost all of last year and came back in ST (I don’t think he played before that), so he probably had some re-adjustment time

2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!

by astromets on Sep 8, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions

He probably won't have a .345 BABIP again, but his true talent level is probably closer to .300

If he keeps up his contact percentage then I think I could live with him walking as often as he was. He has legit power, as we have seen, maybe not for 20+ HR a year but certainly at least double digits I would bet.

"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage

by blueandorange4life on Sep 8, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions

But if it's closer to .300

his BABIP that is, then we’re looking at a .280(ish) hitter for the season. Which is more than acceptable if he got his ISO back up to around that .160 mark. I’m not looking for 20 HR power from him, but 10-12, like in 2009, would be nice. The 28 doubles were very good though this year.

by MetsCity on Sep 8, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions

Right, I think he is fully capable of at least that much

At which point, any perceived flaws in the field would be countered by his bat. He is not a defensive butcher and shows every indication of being a competent 2b, given the chance to get consistent reps anyway

"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage

by blueandorange4life on Sep 9, 2011 3:01 AM EDT up reply actions

Mr. Keith 'Sstach, are you related to Mr. Keith Smoustache?

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 7, 2011 11:45 PM EDT reply actions

has someone cloned me?!?

by keith's stash (stache) on Sep 8, 2011 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions

He was here first

so you would be his clone.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.

by Ogre39666 on Sep 8, 2011 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions

Ah, the Clone Saga

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Sep 8, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions

I'll allow it, for the clever, albeit slightly overstated double entendre

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Sep 9, 2011 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions

may your benevolence rain upon our kingdom!

Seriously, didn’t know you were out there. Just joined and looked into changing the name, but didn’t see any way to.

by keith's stash (stache) on Sep 9, 2011 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions

you have to e-mail the admins and they'll do it. I don't mind if you keep it though. People will know the difference I'm sure

just don’t do anything to besmirch my good name (i just like excuses to use the word besmirch mostly). Either way welcome to the party

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Sep 10, 2011 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions

Why are you talking to yourself?!?!

Save Jenrry Mejia!
Keep Reyes, Trade Wilpon.

by Ogre39666 on Sep 10, 2011 4:40 AM EDT up reply actions

Because he is secretly Nick Evans

Bobby Baseball - The future of Amazin' Avenue.

by Bobby Baseball on Sep 10, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions

damn my secret is out

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Sep 10, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions

who?

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Sep 10, 2011 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions

you're the original KsM

who will confuse you?

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Sep 10, 2011 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions

Tejada at 2B, because I have a feeling Ike may be out again in 2012

and Murphy will be at 1B. Where does Evans play, he has been RISP gold, and so has Turner all season

I hate the way things have gone with Ike this season and fear it will not be over anytime soon.

Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all

by Rickfansince76 on Sep 8, 2011 10:59 AM EDT reply actions

this feeling is based on??

2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!

by astromets on Sep 8, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions

Obviously

it's a gut feeling

by MetsCity on Sep 8, 2011 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions

argument

Nice to have so many candidates for the job, isn’t it? What a difference from the Minaya days.

by MDMETSFAN on Sep 8, 2011 12:06 PM EDT reply actions

Indeed

Next year’s bench could very deep and very talented no matter who gets the starting gig. Its a nice luxury to have

"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage

by blueandorange4life on Sep 8, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions

I like Tajada at 2b

I think him and jose as D up the middle will be insanely good. As in maybe the best double play combo the mets have ever had.

His O is comming around. He will never be a power guy, but if he can get on base reasonably enough (and he has in his career and is young enough to show improvements) he is an excellent candidate for a #2 hitter.

I also think that Murph as a bench player is a huge boost to this team. he can come in as a pinch hitter and stay in at 2b if need be. It would be nice if he can learn to play the OF. I know he had problems there, but if he can become servicable enough to stay in a game on a double switch and give some guys days off he will be a berry baluable bember of the club.

I think it was Bobby V who said: "You are never as good as you are when you are at your best, and you are not as bad as when you are at your worst."

Like the really funny uncle with a healthy bourbon habit who matches every brilliant Thanksgiving story with one or two ill-advised racist jokes or boob grabs, we’re stuck with Melo. So we might as well learn to love him — quirks and all. http://knickerblogger.net/2011-report-card-carmelo-anthony/

by gbaked on Sep 8, 2011 3:03 PM EDT reply actions