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Just Deserts

The latest installment of New York magazine's Workplace Confidential series aired the grievances of an unnamed Mets employee. The piece was not nearly as juicy as that description implies, as it contained nothing much in the way of insider info. It had plenty of complaints, but most of those concerned the sorry state of the team and can be heard on WFAN during any given drive-time.

However, one paragraph stuck out to me:

You know what I think when I read about the Mets nowadays? We’ve become the Oakland A’s. We’re the Pittsburgh Pirates. Our fans deserve better than that. You can’t possibly build a dynasty when you’re cutting costs left and right. The only way to turn it around is to sell the team.

As I said, this article is indistinguishable from something you'd hear of Mike'd Up, and the attitude expressed here is one expressed by many fans. However, it's a viewpoint I can't support.

To be sure, I'm fully in favor of the Wilpons selling the team; the sooner, the better, though I have no real hope for sooner as long as their BFF Bud Selig runs MLB. I do think that the team has become something of a laughingstock, even if the Nelson Muntz act the sports media pulls whenever the Mets are mentioned is a bit hyperbolic. And it is a true shame the Mets could not hang on to Jose Reyes , for a multitude of reasons (even if I also think the contract he received from the Marlins is kind of nuts, at least years-wise).

What I object to here is the use of the word deserve. It implies that Mets fans deserve lavish spending and success, and fans of the Pirates, A's, and other smaller market teams do not.

Star-divide

If you're a Mets fan, you believe your fandom marks you as a truly discerning individual, a step above the kind found in other benighted fanbases. Your choice of favorite team is not the result of family influence or geography, but the sign of an evolutionary step up. Therefore, your team merits The Finest Things In Life.

This attitude is not unique to Mets partisans. Every sports fan feels this way to varying degrees of seriousness, no matter who they root for. It is the last bastion of acceptable chauvinism.

It's okay to feel this way, so long as you acknowledge that it's a ridiculous attitude you should not indulge or let affect your outlook on life. Unfortunately, it does affect your outlook if you honestly feel that you, as a Mets fan, deserve a competitive team more so than, say, a Royals fan does. I'm not sure how many fans truly, deeply believe this, but it is a definite undercurrent in our attitudes toward the rest of baseball.

The impulse to think this is, in part, an outgrowth of a feeling of New York Exceptionalism, the idea that this city is TOO BIG to accept things done on a small scale, no matter the endeavor, and that whatever is done here is inherently better than anything done elsewhere. I've often explained this to transplants from elsewhere: when you grow up in or even near New York City, you simply do not hear about anywhere else. The world is supposed to come to you.

When it comes to baseball, it has long been said that New Yorkers "expect a winner," even if who they expect to win has changed over the years. In the late 1970s, we expected the Bronx Zoo Yankees to win. In the 1980s, the Mets took up that mantle. Bob Murphy can even be heard saying words this affect during some of the mid-80s Mets Yearbooks now aired on SNY.

When the Yankees rose again in the 1990s, they readopted this Veruca Salt-ian mantra: I WANT EVERYTHING AND I WANT IT NOW! Several championships were not enough. They needed a Dynasty because that is what New York "demanded." Through osmosis and the Wilpons' striving, the Mets caught this bug, which led to the checkbook method of roster building that defined the team from 1998 until, well, now. It's hard to say whether the Wilpons fostered this feeling among fans or if they just reflected what fans felt, but in either case, the feeling is now deeply entrenched.

Expecting something and deserving it are two very different things, though. What exactly qualifies a Mets fan as more deserving of a well-funded, star-studded team than any other fan? Because we live in or near a huge city? Because it costs way too much to live here? Because we really, really want to have one?

In the sense that the Mets have revenue streams many teams can only dream of, yes, a Mets fan should expect a certain level of spending on personnel, both on the field and in the front office. (Pre-Alderson, the thing that drove me nuts about the Mets was, for all the cash they spent to woo free agents, they showed little interest in attracting top-flight executive talent.) Considering how much money it costs to go to CitiField, I don't think it's chauvinistic or unreasonable to want to see that value reflected in the on-field product.

But when I hear the word "deserve" tossed out there, I wonder how that must sound to an Indians fan, or a Mariners fan, or a Twins fan. Do they not deserve to be flush with cash and spending lavishly, too? Or are some fans more equal than others?

Not to wander too far off the tour, but we could make a list of people who truly deserve things in this world, and sports fans who want to see a title contender would be pretty far down the list.

The idea the Mets "deserve" a Big Name Team in perpetuity is a big reason why they find themselves in such a mess (with an assist from Bernie Madoff). It was an unsustainable way of team building that doomed the team to failure even before their financial situation completely cratered (see: 2009). To crawl back into contention, they now have to slowly build up their farm system under the most austere conditions.

That means any success the Mets enjoy in the next five years or so will not be bought, but earned. Or deserved, if you prefer.

Comment 76 comments  |  5 recs  | 

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More from Amazin' Avenue

The Joy of Doom

Mar 2012 by Matthew Callan - 9 comments

Comments

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But isn't that what companies say all the time?

Their customers “deserve” the best product/prices/services. This isn’t the rant of a fan; it’s from a player/employee. Seems like pretty boilerplate stuff that is the backbone to most advertising.

by Bieser's Balk on Jan 10, 2012 10:35 AM EST reply actions  

perhaps...

…this is really a larger argument about consumer entitlement in general. I mean, we deserve safe roads and clean drinking water, but I’m not sure we “deserve” Big Gulps and cheese-infused snacks.

by Matthew Callan on Jan 10, 2012 10:38 AM EST up reply actions  

I think we do deserve disgusting cheese-infused foods...

but not in the way we deserve safe roads and clean drinking water, more as a penance of sorts.

by xgamblorx on Jan 10, 2012 10:52 AM EST up reply actions  

I say this to myself all the tie when watching commercials.

Apparently we now “deserve” cruise vacations and kids “deserve” the toy.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Jan 10, 2012 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

ego

because we’re self-centered egotistical New Yorkers.

-Ceetar, the Optimistic Mets Fan

by Ceetar on Jan 10, 2012 10:50 AM EST reply actions  

Just to prove I really understood the point of your article…

…every time I see your name I read it as Matthew Callahan.

Would you consider changing it?

by Curtis3331 on Jan 10, 2012 10:56 AM EST reply actions  

Oh, crap, his last name isn't Callahan?

Whoops…

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 10, 2012 1:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Didn't you answer your own question?

You’ve written a nice essay here, but the answer is simple and you said it yourself: It’s the market. The Mets draw from the biggest sports market in the world and have access to the kind of money that the Royals and Pirates don’t. If you want to parse the difference between the words “deserve” and “expect” then that’s your own business. Either way you slice it, the market is the answer. Mets fans EXPECT the team to spend big and be more competitive. Considering the ludicrous amount of cash they spend to follow the team in person or through SNY, then yes, they DESERVE better, too.

by MCTUTHILL on Jan 10, 2012 11:23 AM EST reply actions   2 recs

But expecting ≠ deserving.

As a citizen of the US, I can expect to have a generally happy life. Doesn’t mean I actually deserve it.
(not meant to be a political statement.)

Save Jenrry Mejia!
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by Ogre39666 on Jan 10, 2012 1:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree, but

The fact remains that the differences between the NYC market and say the Kansas City market (lol) means it’s reasonable for Mets fans to expect a more well-run and well-constructed team than the circus we read about daily. I agree that it’s stupid to feel entitled or that one deserves their favorite team’s success, but to merely feel that the Mets really ought to be better, all things considered, is pretty fair.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf. "

– Tug McGraw when asked about his preference for grass or astroturf

by Terry_is_God on Jan 10, 2012 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

In that case agreed.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
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by Ogre39666 on Jan 10, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

It's the Yankees

I dont believe that Met fans deserve anything more than other teams, but neither do Yankee fans. When the Yankees are spending and winning and the Mets spending half of that, yah, Ill feel a bit cheated.

And I dont want to hear any of that Wilpon-fed nonsense about how we dont compete against the Yankees, only the NL East. Anyone who makes that argument never spent time on a NY middle school playground.

"RBI’s does measure something – Wins."
-Bayonne Mets Fan on MMO

by Dandy Salderson on Jan 10, 2012 12:56 PM EST reply actions  

I was lucky enough that most of my friends in elementary and middle school

were Mets fans or non-asshole Yankees fans because the Mets were good too.

"Let them be stud muffins"
-Tom Seaver
Proud Mets, Jets, Knicks, Islanders fan.

by piazza62 on Jan 10, 2012 10:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I grew up in a town where kids were Mets *and* Yankees fans.

I always have a hard time remembering this is not universally true. :)

by Kepler on Jan 12, 2012 8:47 AM EST up reply actions  

I also had a problem with this article, but for a different reason

I’m paraphrasing, but this is presumably coming from a current player or coach who has the mindset that the season is already decided and that the Mets are going to suck again this year and finish last and they might as well not even play out the season.

To hear that type of negativity coming from a professional athlete/coach much less one who represents my favorite team makes me sick. I ran cross country and track at a smaller D-1 school, and we went up against schools with much better recruiting and much bugger athletics budgets. My school did not even give out athletic scholarships. I’m pretty sure if I ever said anything like this, “Woe is me its hopeless because our school just can’t compete with those other bigger programs”, either my teammates would have kicked the shit out of me or I would have been kicked off the team.

Whenever I ran in big meets I didn’t care who else was in the race. If one of my teammates told me there was some stud who had run faster than me I immediately put a target on his back. How the hell are you supposed to improve either individually or as a team if you just lay down when the competition seems better than you.

The worst part of it is, whoever wrote this has climbed to the highest point of the sport to where they get paid millions of dollars to play. In my mind this “article” speaks more to the greed of this individual player more than the poor state of the Mets. Whoever wrote this better hope their name never leaks, because they are obviously more concerned about money than the game.

by crazycarLUXC on Jan 10, 2012 1:49 PM EST reply actions  

Hoping and believing won't make this a 90-win roster.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Jan 10, 2012 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

No, but laying down truns us from a potential 80 win team into a sub 70 team

and I for one would rather see a team with some fight in it than a bunch of chumps saying what’s the point.

by crazycarLUXC on Jan 10, 2012 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Who said said player (if it is a player) is "laying down"?

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Jan 10, 2012 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Laying down
That’s because it’s going to be a long summer—you’re talking about last place. It’s a tough division all of a sudden. Who do we have that’s going to beat Stephen Strasburg or Cliff Lee? Who’s going to match up against Tim Hudson or Tommy Hanson? We won’t even be able to beat Mark Buehrle. Everyone in the division has at least one big weapon that we don’t have.

Those guys are not unbeatable, but when you talk like they are that is laying down.

by crazycarLUXC on Jan 11, 2012 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Or he's just stating the fact that our rotation is pretty shitty.

Outside of Niese and Dickey we don’t have a non-#5 starter (not including Santana because he may not pitch at all).

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Jan 11, 2012 3:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Look, I'm not saying this team has as much talent as the rest of the division

I know the odds are against the Mets this year, and sure having a positive attitude may not produce tangible wins. But if the team starts to get this negative attitude that they will never win because of the Wilpons or whatever it will start showing on the field and I don’t want to watch that kind of team. It was like that in 2009 and I stopped watching baseball entirely in June because it just made me depressed. Last year we were not ever really in the playoff hunt, but there were some exciting games that made this team fun to watch.

There was the comeback win against Pittsburgh in early June where they were down 7 runs and came back, and a couple of awesome games where we completely owned Atlanta (a much better team) before Carrasco coughed up the sweep with a walkoff balk. If anything having a shitty rotation will give us more opportunities for exciting comeback wins (not the best consolation prize I know, but still) I just want good baseball and not a team with players that think they can’t win.

by crazycarLUXC on Jan 12, 2012 8:59 AM EST up reply actions  

crazycar, if you were NCAA and your school didn't give out athletic scholarships, they should've been Division III.

That’s kind of the distinction between Div. III and the rest of the NCAA. If it was an NAIA school, then I don’t know, but if you were NCAA, you got hosed.

Just sayin’.

by Curtis3331 on Jan 12, 2012 8:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Ivy League schools don't give out athletic scholarships.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Jan 12, 2012 9:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Okay, good call.

My parents went to Cornell, and even they don’t consider the Ivy League Division I, but the NCAA does… at least in some sports.

I went to Clarkson, which is right next door to St. Lawrence. Both of these are Div. III, except in selected sports (primarily ice hockey). They both offer athletic scholarships in hockey, but in no other sports, which is why they’re included in Div. I for hockey.

by Curtis3331 on Jan 14, 2012 7:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree 100% this article is spot on true.

After letting Reyes walk away, dumping Beltran, and K-Rod, David Wright will be next, then what? We have a 50million AAA team? This is NEW YORK, not a small market team, we do deserve a better team. The question is not hom much is spent, but, what it is spent on. When I go an buy a METS shirt what player name will be on the back, Cedeno, Duda? We need to have idols, stars and heroes on the team. You can’t attract fans, sell tickets and entertain fans without a competitive team, do we have that, NO, will we have that anytime soon, NO. It takes time to build and it is a constant add and subtract. Look at the Cardinals, they won the WS in 2006 and only win 79 games, they have been in the WS how many times? The playoffs how many times? With the exception of Albert, name a players on the team? They surrounded Albert with quality players, and, added and subtracted every year, and, still had a good team. The METS are just cutting cost at the expense of the team. We can NOT compete with the NL East and will finish in last place.

by PiazzaHOF on Jan 10, 2012 1:59 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

To be fair

The cardinals were in the playoffs both those years with very poor records and mostly due to a weak NL Central division.

by chakrabs on Jan 10, 2012 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Umm...

What?

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Jan 10, 2012 2:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Dont diss my Duda jersey

"RBI’s does measure something – Wins."
-Bayonne Mets Fan on MMO

by Dandy Salderson on Jan 10, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

ummm

i want a lucas duda jersey

I hate Philadelphia so much.

by the caveman on Jan 10, 2012 6:00 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

Another insightful comment

Par the course.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI

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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 10, 2012 5:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Holy shit, you're right !!!!
Look at the Cardinals, they won the WS in 2006 and only win 79 games

Therefore, we were champtions in 2010.

All hail Jerry !!!

One day, this team is going to kill me.

by fxcarden on Jan 10, 2012 6:20 PM EST up reply actions  

...

I haven't heard this take before

"Let them be stud muffins"
-Tom Seaver
Proud Mets, Jets, Knicks, Islanders fan.

by piazza62 on Jan 10, 2012 9:03 PM EST up reply actions  

So we deserve mediocrity?

I get your point that Met fans are no more “deserving” than Pirate, Royal, or Indian fans – to name but a few. I have been a Mets fans since 1962, so that may explain two things: my irritability (get off my lawn! is setting in) and my utter frustration in being in yet another 10 year cycle of failure.
I can’t speak for the other franchises, and since I no longer live in NYC, I could care less about the NY exceptionalism. I just want a consistently competitve, well-run, baseball team to root for – that’s all. So I completely agree with the mystery man and I am oh-so-tired of the clown-like antics of our present ownership team. I wouldn’t have given Reyes 10 years either. But as a loyal fan, I shouldn’t get 10 year cycles of mediocrity interrupted every so often by a few good years. Enough is enough.

by loge23 on Jan 10, 2012 3:10 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

additionally

We don’t deserve it more than them, they deserve it as much as we do.

I just don’t care if they get it so I don’t spend a lot of time bemoaning the state of Pirates baseball.

-Ceetar, the Optimistic Mets Fan

by Ceetar on Jan 10, 2012 4:10 PM EST reply actions  

Met fans Deserve

They deserve a smack to the head for buying into this team and franchise. It is horrible.

by kflyons on Jan 10, 2012 5:35 PM EST reply actions  

thanks for stopping by

One day, this team is going to kill me.

by fxcarden on Jan 10, 2012 6:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know if I'd say we *deserve* a winning team any more than anyone else

but we, like all fans, deserve a team that’s run competently and utilizes its resources efficiently and intelligently in order to put together the best team possible. The fact is that the resources (i.e. revenue, fan support) available to a baseball team in New York City should enable a competently-run team to be competitive.

by JoshNY on Jan 10, 2012 5:38 PM EST reply actions  

__
You know what I think when I read about the Mets nowadays? We’ve become the Oakland A’s. We’re the Pittsburgh Pirates. Our fans deserve better than that.

Deserve got nuthin’ to with it.

Live ironic and whatnot.

by Brian. on Jan 10, 2012 6:36 PM EST reply actions  

Wilpons gotta get got.

"RBI’s does measure something – Wins."
-Bayonne Mets Fan on MMO

by Dandy Salderson on Jan 11, 2012 1:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Deserve----yes we do!

Deserve is the Right word. We pay a premium for tickets, cable tv, food, parking, etc. Check the prices the Kansas City Royals charge and then check what the METS charge. I see higher prices and less product. In any market, that’s a losing combination.

by metfaninpa on Jan 10, 2012 7:06 PM EST reply actions  

So, the Royals don't deserve to win because they don't charge enough?

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 10, 2012 9:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't feel that I deserve a good team because of NY

I want to see the Mets in the playoffs every single year, because they are my team. Of course, that is completely unreasonable, as only one team in baseball is like that, and just because we let them play in our city doesn’t mean we can be like that. Being in New York doesn’t make us any more deserving because of ticket prices, which we don’t have to pay if you choose not to attend games.

That being said, fans deserve for their team to use the resources available to them to try to put a competitive team on the field. While the Mets need to be rebuilding anyway, having ownership cut costs because of their own personal troubles is completely unreasonable and unacceptable, and it just makes the process harder and longer (lol).

Basically, since we now have a front office that is obviously committed to having a successful team over the long term, I feel we are being shafted because the Wilpon/Katz group doesn’t provide even a modicum of confidence that they are equally committed to enabling that. If they get everything sorted out financially, I believe they will do everything they can to get the franchise back on track, but it doesn’t look like that is coming anytime soon.

"Let them be stud muffins"
-Tom Seaver
Proud Mets, Jets, Knicks, Islanders fan.

by piazza62 on Jan 10, 2012 8:13 PM EST reply actions  

The anti-Yankee

I don’t think that as Mets fans or as New Yorkers that we should adopt the mentality of Yankee fans, which is basically buying players who were born on third so that the fans can believe they all hit triples. I don’t want to be like the Yanks or Sox…but this IS New York and yes, in our city we expect to see talent. Talent does not equal fat egos and money grubbing primadonnas. But at the very least, a team of misfits like the 10’ Giants would be exciting and fun to watch. Instead we field high school superstars turned mediocre Major Leaguers and 30-something has-beens and never-beens. This has to stop. And I’m tired of hearing about how much the Wilpons “love the Mets.” Much like Mr. Dolan across the river, they don’t know jack about owning a team, and similarly, Mr. Alderson can take his moneyball garbage back to Oakland where it belongs.

by Joe Di Marius on Jan 10, 2012 8:28 PM EST reply actions  

According to your profile, you don't even live in New York

I’m not sure what you mean by moneyball garbage, and the centerfielder who was the posterchild of the ’10 Giants is actually on the Mets now…

But you bring up some good points

"Let them be stud muffins"
-Tom Seaver
Proud Mets, Jets, Knicks, Islanders fan.

by piazza62 on Jan 10, 2012 8:44 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Dude, I live in San Francisco…Torres was a part of the whole, but by no means the posterchild for that team. My wife is a huge Giants fan, we’ve got partial season tix and what we saw that year was nothing short of fantastic, even me in my Mets hat enjoyed every minute of it. Torres, like the team, caught lightning in a bottle. We traded our CF mess for theirs…even trade.

As for Alderson, he sucks. He seems to think he can bring the Oakland mentality to NY and quite frankly, it doesnt work. Sure the A’s won a crapload of games back in 01 and still went nowhere. Fielding a bunch of no name clowns doesn’t fly in NYC, especially when they suck. Until we start getting into the mix for the bigger name QUALITY free agents, we’ll be the leagues joke, and we won’t be able to do that until Wilpon and Alderson and Collins are all gone.

Mets, Knicks, Habs and Who Dats?

by Joe Di Marius on Jan 10, 2012 8:49 PM EST up reply actions  

"He seems to think he can bring the Oakland mentality to NY and quite frankly, it doesnt work."

And neither did spending money aimlessly for 5 years.

What do you think will work for the Mets?

Astro Traveler

by BlackOps on Jan 10, 2012 9:54 PM EST up reply actions  

(sigh). I thought we didn't need to explain this anymore.

Alderson isn’t here to ‘bring the Oakland mentality’, unless that translates to ‘winning a lot of baseball games’, in which case, I say it’s long overdue. I’m almost interested in finding out what this mentality is. Oh, and please explain why he sucks so much.

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 10, 2012 9:55 PM EST up reply actions  

.
As for Alderson, he sucks. He seems to think he can bring the Oakland mentality to NY and quite frankly, it doesnt work.

1. What is so bad about trying to get the most bang for your buck?
2. How can he spend money he doesn’t have?
3. You think he likes not having any money?

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Jan 10, 2012 9:56 PM EST up reply actions  

LOLOLOLOL

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI

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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 10, 2012 11:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Hi the Wilpons are broke

and you’re blaming him for not spending money that the Wilpons don’t have. Are you Pomes in disguise?

by graves9 on Jan 11, 2012 6:19 AM EST up reply actions  

HELLO HELLO MR OLDERSON

WE WANT TEH MANSION NOT TEH CONDO.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Jan 11, 2012 11:41 PM EST up reply actions  

^ugh reply fail

To Joe Di Marios

"Let them be stud muffins"
-Tom Seaver
Proud Mets, Jets, Knicks, Islanders fan.

by piazza62 on Jan 10, 2012 8:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Eh

I think the fans deserve a franchise that is run properly. Unlike the Royals and Pirates, the media doesn’t make mountains out of molehills on what happens to them. I think the sad part is that the Pirates and Cubs teams that are just as bad as the Mets are actually improving.

ESPN, Mike Francesa, NY Post, NY Daily News, Fox Sports = Propaganda

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by BlueChill on Jan 10, 2012 10:45 PM EST reply actions  

I don't think the Cubs are improving at all

If we had excess relief pitchers, we’d be traiding them too. 100 losses isn’t out of the question for them, and their farm is in much rougher shape than ours.

I strongly believe that the Pirates reign of being the butt end of snarky jokes and comments is coming to a close very soon.

"Let them be stud muffins"
-Tom Seaver
Proud Mets, Jets, Knicks, Islanders fan.

by piazza62 on Jan 10, 2012 11:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Pirates

Since when have the Pirates been treated as badly as the Mets have by the media? As far as I know they’re largely ignored.

ESPN, Mike Francesa, NY Post, NY Daily News, Fox Sports = Propaganda

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by BlueChill on Jan 10, 2012 11:22 PM EST up reply actions  

They've been the poster child for moribund franchises for years

They’re not openly bashed and ridiculed like the Mets are, but comments like “they’ve become the Pirates” or “they’re gonna be worse than the Pirates” aren’t exactly new.

As a baseball fan it pisses me off to see how one of the most storied teams has been dragged through the mud because of something as insipid as TV market size, and I’m glad it seems to be coming to a close.

"Let them be stud muffins"
-Tom Seaver
Proud Mets, Jets, Knicks, Islanders fan.

by piazza62 on Jan 11, 2012 1:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Fair enough so basically the Mets are taking their place

What a fucking sad state of affairs

ESPN, Mike Francesa, NY Post, NY Daily News, Fox Sports = Propaganda

Feel free to add me on Twitter;
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by BlueChill on Jan 11, 2012 7:04 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm sure there's a Louis C. K. routine about what people "deserve."

You run into a burning building and save a kid, then maybe you deserve a good baseball team. Otherwise, deserve aint nothin’ but a campaign slogan. Fans aren’t entitled to anything. It’s entertainment, not ethics.

by Kepler on Jan 12, 2012 8:41 AM EST reply actions  

Hmmmm, this gives me an idea.

Do you still deserve it if you may be responsible for the fire in the first place?

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 12, 2012 6:16 PM EST up reply actions  

.

This is close – although things aren’t amazing in Metsville.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Jan 12, 2012 7:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think location determines whether a team deserves to be good.

I think it has to be earned. Much as I hate it, Cashman et al are a good management team, and the Steinbrenners were good owners for (eventually, after decades) hiring Cashman and his group and getting out of their own way.

Peter Angelo also tried (repeatedly) to buy his way to a championship, but he never hired the front office that could translate boucoup bucks into on-field talent so, to date, he hasn’t ‘deserved’ it.

For the past few seasons, and probably for the next few, the Rays ‘deserve’ it, but for their first decade they didn’t.

No fans ‘deserve’ an ownership group like the Wilpon/Katzman/Wilpons, regardless of where their team is located. Hopefully they’re now in the process of learning the Steinbrenner lesson and are getting out of their their own way. If they do, maybe two or three years from now We’ll deserve a contending team, too.

by Curtis3331 on Jan 12, 2012 9:08 PM EST reply actions  

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