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Why National Baseball Writers Should Avoid Writing Team-Specific Articles

Jeff Passan wrote an article about the Mets at Yahoo! Sports yesterday which is about as poorly informed as anything I've read this offseason. I suppose it's par for the course for a national columnist to concern himself with only cursory details about specific teams, and I suspect a lot of non-Mets fans read the article and nodded along in agreement. And I'm certainly not a butthurt Mets fan who can't bear to read about their depressing outlook for 2012 and, in some likelihood, 2013 and 2014. I have few delusions about this team I love, so I can't fault Passan for reaching the popular and realistic conclusion that the Mets should consider themselves fortunate if they're fighting for fourth place in the NL East.

But, as they say, it's as much about the journey as it is about the destination, which is why I'll still watch the 2012 Mets even though they'll probably be terrible, and it's why I'm bothered by Passan's article even though he's ultimately correct about the team's short-term prospects.

Among the most frustrating aspects about being a Mets fan today – and Mets fans know frustration like the Duggars know procreation – is a simple fact: The cornucopia of middling free agents the Mets signed this offseason will make more money this year than Jose Reyes.

You know you're in for a bumpy ride when you can't escape the first sentence without tripping over a pseudo-topical cable TV reality show reference, but Passan goes on to commit perhaps the clumsiest of baseball's logical gaffes, which we might call the Many-To-One Payroll Fallacy. The trick here is to add up the salaries of a bunch of mediocre-to-average players and compare their aggregate cost to the salary of one superstar player.

Star-divide

You've seen it before, and the careful reader knows to watch out for it. The reasoning goes like this: If you have $X to spend, why spend it on a bunch of average players when you can just spend it one terrific player? The problem, as you might have guessed, is that it ignores the team's generally inflexible payroll ceiling as well as their desire to have an entire roster of players on Opening Day. It's like saying you have $1,000 to spend, so instead of leasing two Honda Civics and patching the hole in the roof, why not blow it all on a Maserati? Your wife can just walk to work and you always wanted a skylight in the bedroom!

It’s true. Among Frank Francisco ($5.5 million), Jon Rauch ($3.5 million), Ronny Cedeno ($1.15 million) and Scott Hairston ($1.1 million), the Mets handed out $11.25 million in salaries for 2012. The Miami Marlins will pay Reyes $10 million this year.

Yes, those are all players and numbers. Most of those players are average. Francisco is a very good pitcher.

And while one can question both the intelligence and sincerity of a mega-backloaded deal like the one Miami gave Reyes

We definitely can. Go on, though.

he will wear a Marlins uniform, not a Mets one, and that alone is damning.

I don't really get this. How is it damning? Yes, it's a bummer to see Jose Reyes in a Marlins uniform, but these decisions aren't made in a vacuum. Reyes will make a lot of money over a lot of years and he has spent much of the last three seasons on the disabled list. Maybe he'll play 150 games a year for the next half-dozen seasons, and maybe he'll rip his leg up again and fight just to stay on the field. Given the risks, I don't think Reyes was worth that kind of guaranteed deal.

Trying to piecemeal [sic] together a ballclub like the Mets have done almost never works. Incremental upgrades work for contending teams.

So noncontending teams shouldn't try to improve themselves? I don't know what Passan is advocating in lieu of modestly improving a nonplayoff team. Maybe he thinks the Mets should just pocket the money and play scrubs, but as a fan of plenty of crummy teams over the years, there's a huge difference between winning 50 games and winning 80 games. In other words, being decent and being awful are not at all the same thing, even if both outcomes would preclude the postseason.

As tough as it would have been to hand the injury-prone Reyes the six years Miami did, the structure of the contract actually made sense for the Mets, who have no money now but, whether under new ownership or a vanity-share-stabilized Fred Wilpon, should a few years down the road.

Backloading a deal to Reyes only makes sense if you think the total number of years and dollars are worth the risk. I don't think they are, and despite the paucity of decent shortstops around the league, every team with a shortstop vacancy apart from the Marlins apparently felt the same way. Teams balked at the asking price because they didn't want to pay a possibly injured Reyes $16 million in 2017, so they certainly wouldn't want to pay him $20 million by backloading the deal.

Instead, the Mets – the least-talented team in the NL East by a fairly large margin – spent the winter working on their bullpen. And while it projects as a potential strength, relief pitching is notoriously difficult to peg year-over-year, and the possibility for implosion is almost as strong. Moreover, bullpen strength is almost always an endgame for teams on the upswing.

Translation: Relievers are volatile, so don't ever spend any money on them. I think spending $10+ million over three or more years for a reliever is nincompoopery, but the Mets did no such thing. Maybe they spent a million or two more than they should have for Francisco, but again, Passan's point still seems to be that the Mets should have just spent all of that money on Reyes.

I can't quibble with his assessment of the team relative to the rest of the NL East, though.

The Mets are trying to build from the bottom up, the sort of strategy that works just about never.

They're not building; they're treading water. I'm sorry to bang on about this, but Passan's thesis can apparently be distilled to these two points:

  1. The Mets should have signed Jose Reyes, cost be damned.
  2. There's no real difference between a medicore team and a miserable one.

I should probably stop here because I flatly reject both premises. Oh well, on we go.

And so it’s Francisco and Rauch and Hairston and Cedeno and Andres Torres and Ramon Ramirez. All of which is to say: It’s not Jose Reyes.

And so it's a decent car and the rent and the heat and the cable bill and the groceries. All of which is to say: It's not a Maserati.

General manager Sandy Alderson inherited a next-to-impossible situation: the biggest market with commensurate expectations and a cross-borough big brother that epitomizes success; a farm system devoid of talent; and an impoverished ownership group so intent upon keeping its claws in the franchise it had no qualms sacrificing a season or two, and maybe more, to ensure it stays in power. Mets? Psh. This is the New York Mess, and the ugliness is just beginning.

This is all pretty fair. The franchise was a mess, the Wilpons are a huge part of the problem, and so forth. The farm system wasn't entirely devoid of talent, though. It had Matt Harvey, Jenrry Mejia, Lucas Duda, Jeurys Familia, and others.

Passan goes on to say that the 2012 Mets won't be nearly as bad as the 1962 Mets, that the starting rotation is iffy, and that David Wright's future with the team is uncertain. All perfectly cromulent assertions.

Until then, it’s a holding pattern. Wait on starting-pitching studs Matt Harvey, who could arrive this season, and Zack Wheeler, who Alderson stole last year in San Francisco’s ill-fated Carlos Beltran deal. The Mets’ farm system remains thin on impact position players.

Beltran hit .323/.369/.551 with the Giants, but screw that, #BlameBeltran. Passan is mostly right about the system's lack of high-ceiling bats, though.

That, as much as anything, makes Reyes’ departure sting. For all the problems he had staying healthy, he was a homegrown impact player, the sort teams dream of cultivating and so rarely do. The Mets can sell the Lucas Dudas and Justin Turners and Josh Tholes and Daniel Murphys, but it’s the Jose Reyeses that win championships. It’s been far too long since the Mets have seen one of those.

I won't belabor this point any further, but again we see that this whole article is predicated on the idea that signing Reyes to an extremely risky contract was a no-brainer. The rest of this paragraph is embarrassingly lazy. Name a bunch of players who aren't as good as Jose Reyes, none of whom play the same position as Jose Reyes, and point out how they don't win championships. Neglect to point out that none of the two Jose Reyeses to play in the big leagues has ever won a World Series, and that tons of other great players have never won championships either.

Passan closes with a well-reasoned and poignant adumbration of the Wilpons' crummy financial situation and Bud Selig's bald cronyism which continues to keep Wilpon in control of the Mets. Then he caps it off with a stunningly unimaginative Haiku which is as humorless as it is predictable.

Comment 139 comments  |  12 recs  | 

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Well said Eric.

Thank you.

Your quote, “But, as they say, it’s as much about the journey as it is about the destination, which is why I’ll still watch the 2012 Mets even though they’ll probably be terrible…” was spot on.

Being born in New York and rooting for the Islanders, Jets, and Mets. Yeah, I know.
Twitter: cmauceri524

by CharlieIsles on Jan 17, 2012 12:10 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

I think we'll need lots of the latter

to be doing most of the former – in this 2012 season.

But no matter, I’ll be watching every game. Bad NY Met baseball is still better than no NY Met baseball.

by MetsFan4Decades on Jan 17, 2012 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

screw spending that $1,000 on two cars and fixing the hole ($1,000? really Eric?)

I want beer for the season – I won’t care about the other things if I’m drunk all summer!

2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!

by astromets on Jan 17, 2012 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

dude, for real? Not usually a supporter, but Passan was right on the mark; you wanna watch the mets, that’s cool, but if you’re gonna give this team your money, I got a bridge i’d like to sell you first.

by NostraChronus on Jan 17, 2012 12:14 PM EST reply actions  

so youre not a fan of the mets?

or.because they are not going to be good i should.turn off the tv and attend 0 games.

by Jimm Bmore on Jan 17, 2012 2:13 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

Attend zero games, yes.

Not because they’ll be bad, but because it can only help speed up the departure date of Wilpon.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Jan 17, 2012 5:32 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT CRUISE LINER. WE DONT NEED YOU ANYMORE!

__________________________________________________________________
Really good kid.A very good player.Not a superstar. #BlameWilponz. Never Forget

by ScottfromPeekskill on Jan 17, 2012 5:56 PM EST up reply actions  

And, somehow, I doubt that he would sign on the dotted line

if the Mets offered the same exact contract that the Marlins offer, taking a pretty big pay cut for two years of the deal.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 17, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Yup.

Also, it’s a false dilemma to position it as “the Mets could have signed Reyes but instead chose to sign all these spare parts,” as if the Mets were easily able to give Reyes backloaded nine figures but chose Francisco and Co. instead.

In fact it seems pretty irresponsible/lazy/etc to bring up the minority investors as a reason why the Mets would have been able to handle the back end of Reyes’ deal, when much of what we’ve read suggests the $200m raised from selling parcels of the team (which is no sure thing) will head out the door for debt service.

by haplo on Jan 17, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

And not to mention that

they still, as far as we know, don’t have the i’s dotted and t’s crossed or the cash in hand from those minority investors at this juncture, let alone back at the Winter Meetings in December. The whole “don’t worry, we’re doing well with the minority investors” sentiment is fine and dandy but it was and still is largely speculative, until signatures are on paper and money is in the Wilpons’ bank account.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Jan 17, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

"It’s the Jose Reyeses that win championships"

No Jeff, star shortstops alone do not win championship. Ask A-Rod who spent 3 miserable yrs in Texas as a hitting machine on a last place club that scored a lot of runs.

I don’t want to minimize offense in terms of winning because it is important but strong pitching staffs win championships. Ask the Red Sox who finally figured out building teams with big, slow right handed power hitters and no pitching was never going to get them over the top. It was not a coincidence that Curt Schilling was the final piece to the puzzle for them.

I am excited that Alderson is stockpiling young arms. I’d like some more bats but good pitchers are very harder to find. Let’s hope they work out.

Also, Eric I totally agree that Reyes, as much as I loved him, he was not worth that kind of money or years given his injury risk.

by millsy on Jan 17, 2012 12:28 PM EST reply actions  

Their All-Star SS who was 31.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Jan 17, 2012 5:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Good Point But Pitching Is Bigger Than Offense

I can’t think of one team that has slugged their way to a championship with a lousy pitching staff but I can think of quite a few that won with great pitching and mediocre offense – ’69 Mets, ’88 Dodgers, ’01 Diamondbacks, ’10 Giants – just to name 4.

by millsy on Jan 17, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

08

how about the 08 Phillies?

I guess you could say Cole Hamels, but he wasn’t quite an Ace at that point. Mediocre, or even bad, pitching can win you championships via small sample size gems. Oliver Perez pitched well in the playoffs. So did John Maine.

-Ceetar, the Optimistic Mets Fan

by Ceetar on Jan 17, 2012 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Cliff Lee and Brad Lidge

were key parts of the ’08 Phillies staff not to mention the ageless Jamie Moyer and Ryan Madson. That was a pretty damn good staff.

by millsy on Jan 17, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Oops. Lee Was on th '09 Staff

but the others were on this staff. It wasn’t so great after all.

by millsy on Jan 17, 2012 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

There's a big difference between lousy and mediocre.

I think you’ve created a straw man here. Plenty of teams have won with decent pitching and great hitting, just as plenty of teams have won with great pitching and decent hitting. Very rarely (if ever) does a team with a lousy offense or a lousy pitching staff win the World Series.

For example, the 2011 Cardinals had an average pitching staff and the best offense in the National League.

by Eric Simon on Jan 17, 2012 2:14 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Poorly Worded and I Will Correct It But It Is Much Rarer to Win

with great offense and decent pitching than the other way around. Most teams that win have a good balance of both and the ones that become dominant have both great offenses and pitching.

by millsy on Jan 17, 2012 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Correction

Should have said mediocre pitching, not lousy pitching.

by millsy on Jan 17, 2012 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

2011 Cardinals

2010 Rangers (2nd Place obviously)
2011 Rangers (Ditto)

__________________________________________________________________
Really good kid.A very good player.Not a superstar. #BlameWilponz. Never Forget

by ScottfromPeekskill on Jan 17, 2012 8:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Thank You, Thank You, Thank you!

I was hoping somone would write about Passan’s horrible article. He’s comparing apples and oranges and doing so on a short term basis. Have you just had a huge downgrade at SS? Yes. Have you upgraded your pen? Yes. Do the means justify the ends? Maybe. We’ll find that out when Reyes is a couple of years into his contract. What we do know is that we’re not tied down by any of the moves we’ve made to bulster the pen. Unlike the Marlins who have upgraded their infield, but in doing so may have set back their team in the long run.

by sd36 on Jan 17, 2012 12:54 PM EST reply actions  

this

And thank goodness for the AA commenters.

Am I doing this right?

by brooklynberger on Jan 17, 2012 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Bravo.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Jan 17, 2012 12:57 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Witty Limericks And Tomfoolery

This? This is Grant. This is what happens to people when they get too sexually frustrated when Bruce Bochy manages their team.

Oh pissing blimey there's jam coming out of the walls!

by TWilliAM on Jan 17, 2012 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I just read that

I take back my rec, Brisbee

by Joamiq on Jan 20, 2012 11:18 PM EST up reply actions  

What?! An extension for Wright???

Hmm, I seem to have gotten the impression he’s already gone.

Astro Traveler

by BlackOps on Jan 17, 2012 6:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Yahoo Sports and ESPN

continue to battle for the position for catering to the lowest common denominator of sports fan.

I typed your symptoms into this thing up here and it says you could have network connectivity problems.

by TKFJ on Jan 17, 2012 1:08 PM EST reply actions  

Agreed! It's painfully bad.

Yet, why do I still go on their sports pages? Damn masochism.

"I used to be legit. I was too legit. I was too legit to quit. but now I'm not legit. I'm unlegit. And for that reason, I must quit."

by jaronson5 on Jan 17, 2012 1:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Fantasy sports.

I typed your symptoms into this thing up here and it says you could have network connectivity problems.

by TKFJ on Jan 17, 2012 1:24 PM EST up reply actions  

yahoo sports is far worse in my opinion

I have yet to read an article from there that doesn’t leave me shaking my head wondering how these assholes got their job, whereas ESPN has some writers that actually do research for their job

2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!

by astromets on Jan 17, 2012 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Bleacher Report?

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 17, 2012 11:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

To be fair:

The Beltrain deal was ill-fated, for the Giants. The definition of “ill-fated” is “doomed or unlucky,” as per thefreedictionary.com. Obviously Beltran played very well for them, but he also missed a couple weeks with injury, and it wasn’t near enough to overcome the other difficulties SF had. Beltran was a 2-month rental to get the Giants into the playoffs and help them win there, and the big picture goal never happened. To continue with the car analogy, it’d be like renting a Maserati for a job interview so you can impress the people there, but getting stuck in traffic on the way and missing the interview anyway. The Maserati performed great, and without it you would have been ever later and less impressive, but in the end, you still dropped a lot of money (ie, Wheeler) for no real gain.

The rest of the critique is spot on though. Sad, I had thought Passan had muched improved in the past 5 or 6 years. This article sounds like it was ghost-written by Plaschke.

David Eckstein: so gritty they would eat him in the south for breakfast with some butter and sprinkle cheese.

by wrightHOF on Jan 17, 2012 1:16 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Hey guys, how's it going?

I’ve been really busy and haven’t commented much, oh I see we signed Ronny Cedeno, bully. Just stopping by to say I agree with Eric’s and everyone elses sentiment. See ya!

by Sokojoe on Jan 17, 2012 1:25 PM EST reply actions  

A Great Reply to An Embarrassing Article

You really nailed it, Eric. I was appalled by the sheer uselessness of Passan’s column. You really hit what was wrong with it. Excellent work!

by Pastor William Jennings Bryan on Jan 17, 2012 1:38 PM EST reply actions  

The media doesnt let small things like facts get in the way of Met bashing

ESPN, Mike Francesa, NY Post, NY Daily News, Fox Sports = Propaganda
Blue and Orange, Green and White, Red and Black

Twitter: @BlueChill1123

by BlueChill on Jan 17, 2012 6:02 PM EST up reply actions  

The fact that he bashed Wilpon and highlighted the Selig-Wilpon cronyism

is enough for me to overlook the other 99.9% of the article. He could have bashed the Mets for not signing Reyes to a Ryan Howard deal and I wouldn’t have cared.

by tmu on Jan 17, 2012 2:20 PM EST reply actions  

Also, QUERY

don’t many Mets beat writers regularly produce equally infuriating substanceless surface mush?

by tmu on Jan 17, 2012 2:25 PM EST reply actions  

s/national/dumb

Otherwise, right on the money and no minced words. Love it.

by anonymous on Jan 17, 2012 3:31 PM EST reply actions  

How was it "right on the money?"

There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only BLUE WALLS.

The 2012 Mets: Fortune cookie says come back in 2015

by Syler on Jan 18, 2012 1:10 AM EST up reply actions  

Amazin' Avenue,

shooting fish in a barrel since 2005.

(I kid because I love.)

by SuperT on Jan 17, 2012 3:36 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Amazin' Avenue,

shooting fish sports writers who should know better a barrel in the balls with a 10 gauge since 2005.

(I kid I’m not kidding because I love hate them all.)

__________________________________________________________________
Really good kid.A very good player.Not a superstar. #BlameWilponz. Never Forget

by ScottfromPeekskill on Jan 17, 2012 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

preaching to the choir

now, if you could get this posted over at Yahoo! sports so people who thought this guy was credible could read this, then this article would have been worth your time writing.

2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!

by astromets on Jan 17, 2012 5:02 PM EST reply actions  

Eric

You are a critical little bastard! But you are absolutely right on everything you write (unless you disagree with my point of view) and this is no exception.

Well written, well broken down and very much on the point.

I am glad your on our side.

__________________________________________________________________
Really good kid.A very good player.Not a superstar. #BlameWilponz. Never Forget

by ScottfromPeekskill on Jan 17, 2012 5:48 PM EST reply actions  

This is an extremely well written piece.

applause

Arteta, it's all about the right pass it goes left to the left foot of VAN PERSIE
Proud member of Fusillade and The Short Fuse

by Aidan Gibson on Jan 17, 2012 6:00 PM EST reply actions  

This

article (the one written here, not Passan’s) is awesome, mainly because there is a similar article on Bucsdugout (here) about a similarly poorly written Passan article. Generally, I like Passan, actually I thought he did a great job of covering the new CBA, but here he’s over his head.

by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jan 17, 2012 6:00 PM EST reply actions  

Passan's article makes B_______ R_____ articles look intelligent

ESPN, Mike Francesa, NY Post, NY Daily News, Fox Sports = Propaganda
Blue and Orange, Green and White, Red and Black

Twitter: @BlueChill1123

by BlueChill on Jan 17, 2012 6:05 PM EST reply actions  

Hmm

Baseball-Reference?

Astro Traveler

by BlackOps on Jan 17, 2012 6:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, and Passan is wrong about a bunch of crap in the article as pointed out above

But I don’t think it deserves this treatment (he’s wrong about the Met offense being subpar, and about the financial troubles easing after 2012, for example).

by Brian Mangan on Jan 17, 2012 7:05 PM EST up reply actions  

subpar is a relative term

For a “big market” team, I suppose we are sub-par, especially when you look to the Bronx, or Boston, or 90 miles south. If the Mets were in, say, the midwest….they would be on par with most teams.

One day, this team is going to kill me.

by fxcarden on Jan 17, 2012 8:53 PM EST up reply actions  

So essentially

Chris Schwinden would be your 5th starter, Josh Stinson/Pedro Beato/Danny Herrera would fill important roles in the bullpen and you’d have Nick Evans and Luis Hernandez on the bench?

Sorry but it seems to me like that replacement level muck would take away any positive that Reyes over Tejada would give you. I love Jose but if you were going to re-sign him, you’d need the money the sign the bullpen guys, bench guys and a 5th starter just to make sure that those spots aren’t totally abysmal. And I understand Reyes would be signed longterm but if you’re re-signing him, it makes little sense to punt 2012. In that situation, you can’t waste a season of Reyes in his prime.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Jan 17, 2012 9:12 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

The theory hinges on the Wilpons not dragging the team down forever.

And I disagree that re-signing Reyes means you can’t use 2012 as a rebuilding year.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Jan 17, 2012 9:14 PM EST up reply actions  

A simple WAR calculation shows that Reyes would be more valuable

But that’s not really the point.

Besides, we’ve acknowledged above that there is a difference between a mediocre team and a bad team in terms of quality.

I submit that I’d rather see a 75 win team with Reyes than a 77 win team with Francisco and Rauch.

by Brian Mangan on Jan 17, 2012 9:24 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I'd rather have Reyes for 5+ years

Than 1 years band-aids of Fransico, Ramirez, etc.

by TheKid08 on Jan 18, 2012 1:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Reyes was the only entertaining thing on the Mets last year

with the possible exception of R.A. Dickey.

I understand the logic that Reyes wasn’t worth the contract he got, and better that the Mets pass.

But I’m not going to sit there and pretend there is any reason to watch this baseball team in 2012. There isn’t.

by aronofsky40 on Jan 18, 2012 11:21 AM EST up reply actions  

yet if they come out and play .500 ball til June

you’ll be wanting to trade the whole farm for some shitty quick fix and pipedream? This team won’t be nearly as bad as people are making it out to be. They could still win half their games or more, the season hasn’t started yet and who cares what it looks like on paper

2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!

by astromets on Jan 20, 2012 2:11 AM EST up reply actions  

what is a medicore team ?

sounds like something run by Ray Ramirez

(kidding, I know it is a spelling error)

One day, this team is going to kill me.

by fxcarden on Jan 17, 2012 8:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Correction

MediCore is when savvy front offices allot money toward a supercharged trainers’ staff to prevent and rehabilitate injuries. Like Passan said the 09 Mets shoulda had.

by Manic McReynolds on Jan 18, 2012 1:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Generally people here lash out at anything the MSM says about the Mets

It’s like we all know that the Mets have been a poorly run joke of a franchise these past few years, but if someone from the MSM says that, then they are just picking on us.

"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell

by Rey-O on Jan 18, 2012 12:25 AM EST up reply actions  

When the core of the argument is lacking sense, yes

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 18, 2012 12:00 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I don't mind writers criticizing the Mets

as long as there is at least some point or substance to the piece. I don’t need some dumbshit beat writer or humorless Twitter comedian regurgitating non-information that I already know and already don’t care about.

"Let them be stud muffins"
-Tom Seaver
Proud Mets, Jets, Knicks, Islanders fan.

by piazza62 on Jan 18, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Hey, did ya hear?!

The Mutts still pay Bobby Bonilla and will pay him for another 20 years!!!1one1

#LOLMets, amirite?

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Jan 18, 2012 9:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Okay.

You’re promulgating the same fallacy that Passan fell for about spending all of your money on one great player instead of a handful of average players. You need to construct a full roster here.

“But wait,” you’ll argue, “We can just promote detritus from the farm system to take those roster spots!” Sure, if you really don’t care how the team is going to turn out. I do. Then Passan said this:

Trying to piecemeal [sic] together a ballclub like the Mets have done almost never works. Incremental upgrades work for contending teams.

This is point #2 in my adumbration of his article. Passan seems clearly to be arguing that if the Mets aren’t going to be great, they might as well just be terrible. I find that premise to be absurd.

His main argument is that the Mets should have just signed Jose Reyes and that doing so was essentially a no-brainer, in spite of all the perfectly good reasons not to sign him which Passan casually dismissed. I wanted Jose Reyes back, but not for the contract he signed.

Regarding Beltran, I interpreted his “ill-fated Carlos Beltran deal” comment to be yet another in a long line of misplaced jabs at Beltran for failing to move mountains. As others have argued here, Passan may have just been illustrating that the deal didn’t work out for the Giants because they didn’t make the playoffs, but I suspect there’s an implicit dig at Beltran. Could be that absorbing the last five years of irrational Beltran hatred is getting to me.

by Eric Simon on Jan 18, 2012 1:07 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

What is with this use of 'piecemeal [sic]'?

Where I come from [sic] is used to tell the reader that a word misspelled in the work quoted was misspelled in the original, so it’s not a typo or a mistake by the quoter. That obviously doesn’t apply here, since ‘piecemeal’ is a perfectly good and correctly spelled word.

So, what is the [sic] for?

by Curtis3331 on Jan 18, 2012 6:23 PM EST up reply actions  

It means that the preceding word is grammatically incorrect,

but that’s how the original writer wrote it. In other words, it denotes that the bad grammar is Passan’s, not Eric’s.

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 18, 2012 11:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess that means my grammar is as bad as Passan's.

He verbed a noun; I do that all the time. Hey, look! I did it again!

But, thank you for explaining, BobbyV.

by Curtis3331 on Jan 19, 2012 5:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, piecemeal isn't a verb, it's a noun or adjective.

Could’ve explained that more clearly.

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 19, 2012 5:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Either they can compete soon or not

If the Mets have any chance to compete at all over the next few years, then it might make sense to sign Reyes, but it doesn’t make any less sense to fix the pen.

If the Mets have no chance at all to compete over the next few years, then signing Reyes would be a heck of a lot more foolish than fixing the bullpen. Noone is going to want to be paying Reyes $20M a year in his mid-thirties.

by acerimusdux on Jan 19, 2012 11:34 PM EST up reply actions  

if Passan wrote an Applesauce

I’m pretty sure it would read mets sign another player not named Jose Reyes for the whole offseason.
on a side note: Agreed Eric, great article filling holes is so much more important than one player as much as it pains me to say it. At least they spent the money and didn’t put it towards the loan like I feared they might do.

by sp0rtsfan86 on Jan 17, 2012 8:23 PM EST reply actions  

a question/discussion point

if the mets were not owned by the wilpons (i.e. had the money of a big market team that hadn’t relied heavily on fictitious profits from a ponzi scheme), would jose reyes be worth six years at 100-110 million? my guess is yes. i think you take the risk on a homegrown, top tier shortstop.

...And Dickey pounds Poo-Holes inside

by davein2d on Jan 17, 2012 9:41 PM EST reply actions  

maybe

but then you would have to ask why no other teams other than the Marlins came close to that figure? I agree he would be worth more to the Mets, so perhaps you are correct, but you would be paying for the fact that you could retire his number one day.

Am I doing this right?

by brooklynberger on Jan 17, 2012 11:03 PM EST up reply actions  

This was covered multiple times at AA in the month or so prior to Reyes signing.

My recollection was that as a group we didn’t think $100 million was out of line, but few of us would be willing to guarantee the sixth (or seventh) year. I was personally willing to go seven years/$129.5 million, but with the last two seasons optional. Of course, I had no idea how dire the Mets’ financial situation was.

by Curtis3331 on Jan 17, 2012 11:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I kinda disagree with your opinion

that a mediocre team is significantly more enjoyable to watch than a bad team. Neither is really any fun to watch IMO.

by aronofsky40 on Jan 18, 2012 12:47 AM EST reply actions  

Interesting, but I think once you get below .500, the individual players are what matter most

The 2004 Mets were a lot more enjoyable than the 2003 Mets, and they were horrible, but they had gotten rid of Alomar/Cedeno/Vaughn/Burnitz/Benitez.

Could explain how 2011 wasn’t as tortuous as we were expecting it to be.

If so, would be a bad portent for 2012 with Carlos and Jose gone.

by Brian Mangan on Jan 18, 2012 1:09 AM EST up reply actions  

just like I hope these past few years to

those years blended together into one big pile of shit, with not enough Mike Piazza kicking ass due to injuries

2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!

by astromets on Jan 20, 2012 2:14 AM EST up reply actions  

No they were not fun to watch at all

I don’t know what team you were watching…

You know what team WAS fun to watch? The Phillies.

by aronofsky40 on Jan 18, 2012 1:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Flagged

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf. "

– Tug McGraw when asked about his preference for grass or astroturf

by Terry_is_God on Jan 18, 2012 1:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Triple flagged.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Jan 18, 2012 1:57 AM EST up reply actions  

troll

...And Dickey pounds Poo-Holes inside

by davein2d on Jan 18, 2012 10:10 AM EST up reply actions  

False

Disgruntled Mets fan. I refuse to support the Wilpons with any of my dollars or tv ratings until they sell to a competent owner who can field a contending team more or less every year. You know, like the Yankees and the Sox do.

by aronofsky40 on Jan 18, 2012 11:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Stop trolling

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 18, 2012 12:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Ahem, and I quote
No they were not fun to watch at all

I don’t know what team you were watching…

You know what team WAS fun to watch? The Phillies.

by aronofsky40 on Jan 18, 2012 1:14 AM EST up reply actions

2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!

by astromets on Jan 20, 2012 2:17 AM EST up reply actions  

wait, you didn't get banned yet?

why can we have the mods from thestripedfish.com? I was banned within 5 minutes of trying to joke around a little. TRAID AERIK ZIMONE, SAIM PAGET, KANNENGLAZER and leave LOHAUS#34 in charge NOW PLZ

2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!

by astromets on Jan 20, 2012 2:16 AM EST up reply actions  

How much of that enjoyment can as a result of watching Reyes play?

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Jan 18, 2012 1:40 AM EST up reply actions  

He's ONE player

Yes, he’s a great player, but he’s just one of 25. If he’s the only reason you were watching Mets games, then…well I don’t know what to say.

Going along with this, I find it really bizarre that this above all else was the straw that broke the camel’s back for some people.

It wasn’t the two collapses. It wasn’t the complete and total embarrassment on and off the field for the team. It wasn’t the Jason Bay signing. It wasn’t Perez being resigned. It wasn’t five consecutive years without playoffs and three consecutive years under .500.

It was the supposedly “shocking” leaving of a player who every single sign in the last 9 months pointed to leaving. A player whose contract was only friendly in the first two years, two years where the team had little to no chance of competing with or without him. A player who had missed significant time in each of the last 3 seasons, and took on a contract that is severely backloaded, which was an Omar Minaya specialty.

There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only BLUE WALLS.

The 2012 Mets: Fortune cookie says come back in 2015

by Syler on Jan 18, 2012 2:03 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I think it was just the final straw for many

who got comfortable with the NY, and specifically Omar, way of putting together a roster by throwing as much money at specific players as possible.

2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!

by astromets on Jan 20, 2012 2:19 AM EST up reply actions  

It was Ike and then Duda for me

I was born in 1990 so before Wright the only homegrown powerhitting Mets I got to see were Butch Huskey and Rico Brogna.

"Let them be stud muffins"
-Tom Seaver
Proud Mets, Jets, Knicks, Islanders fan.

by piazza62 on Jan 18, 2012 8:49 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Of course, you can obviously derive pleasure

from anything you want to.

But with Ike only getting 150 plate appearances, and Duda was really only on track for about 20 homers.

That’s not a ton of entertainment value for me personally.

If they had some guys hitting 40 – 40 bombs, that’d be a much different story.

But they don’t, because the Wilpons are completely inept owners.

by aronofsky40 on Jan 18, 2012 8:53 AM EST up reply actions  

I would have to think maybe 90%

with 10% from Dickey, who’s pretty cool.

How could watching anyone else on this team be enjoyable? I can’t even imagine.

by aronofsky40 on Jan 18, 2012 8:49 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm appalled

that you can call yourself a baseball fan and not find a baseball team enjoyable to watch.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Jan 18, 2012 11:33 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Really?

I don’t enjoy watching crappy teams or even mediocre teams. I enjoy watching good teams compete.

Just personal preference.

Anyway, even though I’m a Mets fan, I derived a lot of pleasure from watching the Phillies this year. With that pitching staff, they brought a high level of entertainment value.

Like I said, the Mets brought nothing except Jose Reyes, who is now gone, and Dickey who is kind of enjoyable to watch except that he has a garbage lineup batting for him, which takes the air out of the game considerably.

Just my opinion though. Some people like vanilla, some people like chocolate. That’s the way it is when you get into something as subjective as “entertainment value.”

by aronofsky40 on Jan 19, 2012 8:59 AM EST up reply actions  

I'd rather be a front runner

than a shill and apologist for the Wilpons.

But your philosophy is the one they hope everyone goes with, of course.

by aronofsky40 on Jan 19, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Rec'd

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 19, 2012 7:25 PM EST up reply actions  

There's nothing worse than a frontrunner.

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 19, 2012 5:49 PM EST up reply actions  

that's ban worthy, right?

2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!

by astromets on Jan 20, 2012 2:21 AM EST up reply actions  

Absolutely.

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 20, 2012 7:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice Essay

It’s a provocative title, and it’s well supported. Really.

It’s telling that, having read Passan’s stuff, and seeing the size of the excerpted text you quoted (which by their size I knew comprised around half of Passan’s total piece), I didn’t feel the need to consult the source until you alluded to the haiku . . .

which made me click on the source . . .

which was my worst use of 60 seconds in, like, a month.

Still give Passan credit for “vanity-share-stabilized Fred Wilpon.” If you’re sh#tti#g away time reading about baseball, you could do far worse than the Yahoo guys. Probably hold higher WAR vs other sports/baseball writers than their parent company does against its competition!

by Manic McReynolds on Jan 18, 2012 1:41 AM EST reply actions  

yeah you could be reading articles by ESPN or Sports Illustrated

but seriously, why should any of us be wasting time on yahoo articles anyway? ever seen the comments made by those yahoos there?

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Jan 18, 2012 8:20 AM EST up reply actions  

aside from bleacher report

I have yet to find a ‘MSM’ source that gets away with assuming I am more of a dumbass than Yahoo. I have never read anything insightful, enlightening or original at that site, instead I am always shaking my head in disappointment for giving them another chance as I go off to a better site

2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!

by astromets on Jan 20, 2012 2:25 AM EST up reply actions  

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