Why National Baseball Writers Should Avoid Writing Team-Specific Articles
Jeff Passan wrote an article about the Mets at Yahoo! Sports yesterday which is about as poorly informed as anything I've read this offseason. I suppose it's par for the course for a national columnist to concern himself with only cursory details about specific teams, and I suspect a lot of non-Mets fans read the article and nodded along in agreement. And I'm certainly not a butthurt Mets fan who can't bear to read about their depressing outlook for 2012 and, in some likelihood, 2013 and 2014. I have few delusions about this team I love, so I can't fault Passan for reaching the popular and realistic conclusion that the Mets should consider themselves fortunate if they're fighting for fourth place in the NL East.
But, as they say, it's as much about the journey as it is about the destination, which is why I'll still watch the 2012 Mets even though they'll probably be terrible, and it's why I'm bothered by Passan's article even though he's ultimately correct about the team's short-term prospects.
Among the most frustrating aspects about being a Mets fan today – and Mets fans know frustration like the Duggars know procreation – is a simple fact: The cornucopia of middling free agents the Mets signed this offseason will make more money this year than Jose Reyes.
You know you're in for a bumpy ride when you can't escape the first sentence without tripping over a pseudo-topical cable TV reality show reference, but Passan goes on to commit perhaps the clumsiest of baseball's logical gaffes, which we might call the Many-To-One Payroll Fallacy. The trick here is to add up the salaries of a bunch of mediocre-to-average players and compare their aggregate cost to the salary of one superstar player.
You've seen it before, and the careful reader knows to watch out for it. The reasoning goes like this: If you have $X to spend, why spend it on a bunch of average players when you can just spend it one terrific player? The problem, as you might have guessed, is that it ignores the team's generally inflexible payroll ceiling as well as their desire to have an entire roster of players on Opening Day. It's like saying you have $1,000 to spend, so instead of leasing two Honda Civics and patching the hole in the roof, why not blow it all on a Maserati? Your wife can just walk to work and you always wanted a skylight in the bedroom!
It’s true. Among Frank Francisco ($5.5 million), Jon Rauch ($3.5 million), Ronny Cedeno ($1.15 million) and Scott Hairston ($1.1 million), the Mets handed out $11.25 million in salaries for 2012. The Miami Marlins will pay Reyes $10 million this year.
Yes, those are all players and numbers. Most of those players are average. Francisco is a very good pitcher.
And while one can question both the intelligence and sincerity of a mega-backloaded deal like the one Miami gave Reyes
We definitely can. Go on, though.
he will wear a Marlins uniform, not a Mets one, and that alone is damning.
I don't really get this. How is it damning? Yes, it's a bummer to see Jose Reyes in a Marlins uniform, but these decisions aren't made in a vacuum. Reyes will make a lot of money over a lot of years and he has spent much of the last three seasons on the disabled list. Maybe he'll play 150 games a year for the next half-dozen seasons, and maybe he'll rip his leg up again and fight just to stay on the field. Given the risks, I don't think Reyes was worth that kind of guaranteed deal.
Trying to piecemeal [sic] together a ballclub like the Mets have done almost never works. Incremental upgrades work for contending teams.
So noncontending teams shouldn't try to improve themselves? I don't know what Passan is advocating in lieu of modestly improving a nonplayoff team. Maybe he thinks the Mets should just pocket the money and play scrubs, but as a fan of plenty of crummy teams over the years, there's a huge difference between winning 50 games and winning 80 games. In other words, being decent and being awful are not at all the same thing, even if both outcomes would preclude the postseason.
As tough as it would have been to hand the injury-prone Reyes the six years Miami did, the structure of the contract actually made sense for the Mets, who have no money now but, whether under new ownership or a vanity-share-stabilized Fred Wilpon, should a few years down the road.
Backloading a deal to Reyes only makes sense if you think the total number of years and dollars are worth the risk. I don't think they are, and despite the paucity of decent shortstops around the league, every team with a shortstop vacancy apart from the Marlins apparently felt the same way. Teams balked at the asking price because they didn't want to pay a possibly injured Reyes $16 million in 2017, so they certainly wouldn't want to pay him $20 million by backloading the deal.
Instead, the Mets – the least-talented team in the NL East by a fairly large margin – spent the winter working on their bullpen. And while it projects as a potential strength, relief pitching is notoriously difficult to peg year-over-year, and the possibility for implosion is almost as strong. Moreover, bullpen strength is almost always an endgame for teams on the upswing.
Translation: Relievers are volatile, so don't ever spend any money on them. I think spending $10+ million over three or more years for a reliever is nincompoopery, but the Mets did no such thing. Maybe they spent a million or two more than they should have for Francisco, but again, Passan's point still seems to be that the Mets should have just spent all of that money on Reyes.
I can't quibble with his assessment of the team relative to the rest of the NL East, though.
The Mets are trying to build from the bottom up, the sort of strategy that works just about never.
They're not building; they're treading water. I'm sorry to bang on about this, but Passan's thesis can apparently be distilled to these two points:
- The Mets should have signed Jose Reyes, cost be damned.
- There's no real difference between a medicore team and a miserable one.
I should probably stop here because I flatly reject both premises. Oh well, on we go.
And so it’s Francisco and Rauch and Hairston and Cedeno and Andres Torres and Ramon Ramirez. All of which is to say: It’s not Jose Reyes.
And so it's a decent car and the rent and the heat and the cable bill and the groceries. All of which is to say: It's not a Maserati.
General manager Sandy Alderson inherited a next-to-impossible situation: the biggest market with commensurate expectations and a cross-borough big brother that epitomizes success; a farm system devoid of talent; and an impoverished ownership group so intent upon keeping its claws in the franchise it had no qualms sacrificing a season or two, and maybe more, to ensure it stays in power. Mets? Psh. This is the New York Mess, and the ugliness is just beginning.
This is all pretty fair. The franchise was a mess, the Wilpons are a huge part of the problem, and so forth. The farm system wasn't entirely devoid of talent, though. It had Matt Harvey, Jenrry Mejia, Lucas Duda, Jeurys Familia, and others.
Passan goes on to say that the 2012 Mets won't be nearly as bad as the 1962 Mets, that the starting rotation is iffy, and that David Wright's future with the team is uncertain. All perfectly cromulent assertions.
Until then, it’s a holding pattern. Wait on starting-pitching studs Matt Harvey, who could arrive this season, and Zack Wheeler, who Alderson stole last year in San Francisco’s ill-fated Carlos Beltran deal. The Mets’ farm system remains thin on impact position players.
Beltran hit .323/.369/.551 with the Giants, but screw that, #BlameBeltran. Passan is mostly right about the system's lack of high-ceiling bats, though.
That, as much as anything, makes Reyes’ departure sting. For all the problems he had staying healthy, he was a homegrown impact player, the sort teams dream of cultivating and so rarely do. The Mets can sell the Lucas Dudas and Justin Turners and Josh Tholes and Daniel Murphys, but it’s the Jose Reyeses that win championships. It’s been far too long since the Mets have seen one of those.
I won't belabor this point any further, but again we see that this whole article is predicated on the idea that signing Reyes to an extremely risky contract was a no-brainer. The rest of this paragraph is embarrassingly lazy. Name a bunch of players who aren't as good as Jose Reyes, none of whom play the same position as Jose Reyes, and point out how they don't win championships. Neglect to point out that none of the two Jose Reyeses to play in the big leagues has ever won a World Series, and that tons of other great players have never won championships either.
Passan closes with a well-reasoned and poignant adumbration of the Wilpons' crummy financial situation and Bud Selig's bald cronyism which continues to keep Wilpon in control of the Mets. Then he caps it off with a stunningly unimaginative Haiku which is as humorless as it is predictable.
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Well said Eric.
Thank you.
Your quote, “But, as they say, it’s as much about the journey as it is about the destination, which is why I’ll still watch the 2012 Mets even though they’ll probably be terrible…” was spot on.
Being born in New York and rooting for the Islanders, Jets, and Mets. Yeah, I know.
Twitter: cmauceri524
by CharlieIsles on Jan 17, 2012 12:10 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
for me, it's about the beer
One day, this team is going to kill me.
by fxcarden on Jan 17, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I think we'll need lots of the latter
to be doing most of the former – in this 2012 season.
But no matter, I’ll be watching every game. Bad NY Met baseball is still better than no NY Met baseball.
by MetsFan4Decades on Jan 17, 2012 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
2011 Mets were about the beer
2012 Mets are going to be about whiskey.
Being born in New York and rooting for the Islanders, Jets, and Mets. Yeah, I know.
Twitter: cmauceri524
by CharlieIsles on Jan 17, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
screw spending that $1,000 on two cars and fixing the hole ($1,000? really Eric?)
I want beer for the season – I won’t care about the other things if I’m drunk all summer!
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
dude, for real? Not usually a supporter, but Passan was right on the mark; you wanna watch the mets, that’s cool, but if you’re gonna give this team your money, I got a bridge i’d like to sell you first.
so youre not a fan of the mets?
or.because they are not going to be good i should.turn off the tv and attend 0 games.
by Jimm Bmore on Jan 17, 2012 2:13 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Attend zero games, yes.
Not because they’ll be bad, but because it can only help speed up the departure date of Wilpon.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
by Ogre39666 on Jan 17, 2012 5:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
and i have an italian cruise liner for sale
gently used
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.
by kendynamo on Jan 17, 2012 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT CRUISE LINER. WE DONT NEED YOU ANYMORE!
__________________________________________________________________
Really good kid.A very good player.Not a superstar. #BlameWilponz. Never Forget
by ScottfromPeekskill on Jan 17, 2012 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
If Reyes would have signed a 1yr/10mil deal
I think he would probably be a Met, Mr. Passan.
Amazin Avenue News Guru
http://metropolitantales.com
@jeffpaternostro
by Jeffrey Paternostro on Jan 17, 2012 12:26 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
And, somehow, I doubt that he would sign on the dotted line
if the Mets offered the same exact contract that the Marlins offer, taking a pretty big pay cut for two years of the deal.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 17, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yup.
Also, it’s a false dilemma to position it as “the Mets could have signed Reyes but instead chose to sign all these spare parts,” as if the Mets were easily able to give Reyes backloaded nine figures but chose Francisco and Co. instead.
In fact it seems pretty irresponsible/lazy/etc to bring up the minority investors as a reason why the Mets would have been able to handle the back end of Reyes’ deal, when much of what we’ve read suggests the $200m raised from selling parcels of the team (which is no sure thing) will head out the door for debt service.
And not to mention that
they still, as far as we know, don’t have the i’s dotted and t’s crossed or the cash in hand from those minority investors at this juncture, let alone back at the Winter Meetings in December. The whole “don’t worry, we’re doing well with the minority investors” sentiment is fine and dandy but it was and still is largely speculative, until signatures are on paper and money is in the Wilpons’ bank account.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Jan 17, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
"It’s the Jose Reyeses that win championships"
No Jeff, star shortstops alone do not win championship. Ask A-Rod who spent 3 miserable yrs in Texas as a hitting machine on a last place club that scored a lot of runs.
I don’t want to minimize offense in terms of winning because it is important but strong pitching staffs win championships. Ask the Red Sox who finally figured out building teams with big, slow right handed power hitters and no pitching was never going to get them over the top. It was not a coincidence that Curt Schilling was the final piece to the puzzle for them.
I am excited that Alderson is stockpiling young arms. I’d like some more bats but good pitchers are very harder to find. Let’s hope they work out.
Also, Eric I totally agree that Reyes, as much as I loved him, he was not worth that kind of money or years given his injury risk.
The 2004 Red Sox are a funny example...
… given that they traded away their All-Star SS mid-season.
Learn something new every day: http://dlewis.net/nik
by Dan Lewis on Jan 17, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Not to be pedantic, but pitching staffs don't win championships
teams do. No single facet of a team wins championships.
by SoCal Metfan on Jan 17, 2012 12:52 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Good Point But Pitching Is Bigger Than Offense
I can’t think of one team that has slugged their way to a championship with a lousy pitching staff but I can think of quite a few that won with great pitching and mediocre offense – ’69 Mets, ’88 Dodgers, ’01 Diamondbacks, ’10 Giants – just to name 4.
08
how about the 08 Phillies?
I guess you could say Cole Hamels, but he wasn’t quite an Ace at that point. Mediocre, or even bad, pitching can win you championships via small sample size gems. Oliver Perez pitched well in the playoffs. So did John Maine.
-Ceetar, the Optimistic Mets Fan
Cliff Lee and Brad Lidge
were key parts of the ’08 Phillies staff not to mention the ageless Jamie Moyer and Ryan Madson. That was a pretty damn good staff.
Oops. Lee Was on th '09 Staff
but the others were on this staff. It wasn’t so great after all.
There's a big difference between lousy and mediocre.
I think you’ve created a straw man here. Plenty of teams have won with decent pitching and great hitting, just as plenty of teams have won with great pitching and decent hitting. Very rarely (if ever) does a team with a lousy offense or a lousy pitching staff win the World Series.
For example, the 2011 Cardinals had an average pitching staff and the best offense in the National League.
by Eric Simon on Jan 17, 2012 2:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Poorly Worded and I Will Correct It But It Is Much Rarer to Win
with great offense and decent pitching than the other way around. Most teams that win have a good balance of both and the ones that become dominant have both great offenses and pitching.
Correction
Should have said mediocre pitching, not lousy pitching.
2011 Cardinals
2010 Rangers (2nd Place obviously)
2011 Rangers (Ditto)
__________________________________________________________________
Really good kid.A very good player.Not a superstar. #BlameWilponz. Never Forget
by ScottfromPeekskill on Jan 17, 2012 8:40 PM EST up reply actions
The Mets won 77 games last year
and yet every writer seems to wish they had the same team as last year. This is irrelevant to an actually intelligent discussion about whether or not they should have re-signed Reyes, I just think it’s hilarious. I guess mocking a New York team for being cheap is more fun for hacks than wanting to run a great player out of town for not being a “winner.”
by guidishfish on Jan 17, 2012 12:43 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
Thank You, Thank You, Thank you!
I was hoping somone would write about Passan’s horrible article. He’s comparing apples and oranges and doing so on a short term basis. Have you just had a huge downgrade at SS? Yes. Have you upgraded your pen? Yes. Do the means justify the ends? Maybe. We’ll find that out when Reyes is a couple of years into his contract. What we do know is that we’re not tied down by any of the moves we’ve made to bulster the pen. Unlike the Marlins who have upgraded their infield, but in doing so may have set back their team in the long run.
this
And thank goodness for the AA commenters.
Am I doing this right?
by brooklynberger on Jan 17, 2012 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
Bravo.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Jan 17, 2012 12:57 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Fixed the headline.
Why National Baseball Writers Should Avoid Writing Team-Specific Articles, Except For That Delightful Brisbee Chap, Who Makes Up For His Lack Of Knowledge With Witty Limericks And Tomfoolery
by Grant Brisbee on Jan 17, 2012 1:02 PM EST reply actions 8 recs
Witty Limericks And Tomfoolery
This? This is Grant. This is what happens to people when they get too sexually frustrated when Bruce Bochy manages their team.
Oh pissing blimey there's jam coming out of the walls!
I am ok with that
#blamesimon
by Shinjo Is God on Jan 17, 2012 1:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
No, I saw what you wrote about Edgardo Alfonzo
unforgivable
"Let them be stud muffins"
-Tom Seaver
Proud Mets, Jets, Knicks, Islanders fan.
by piazza62 on Jan 17, 2012 8:05 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
This quote is just wrong.
As tough as it would have been to hand the injury-prone Reyes the six years Miami did, the structure of the contract actually made sense for the Mets, who have no money now but, whether under new ownership or a vanity-share-stabilized Fred Wilpon, should a few years down the road.
The Mets biggest financial problems aren’t in 2012. The costs and revenue for 2012 are close to certain at this point, and the Wilpons will eke by, probably only due to vanity-share sales. (I like that term, btw.)
But attendance is going to fall off, and in-stadium revenue (e.g. advertisements) will likely as well. The Wilpons can’t take on more debt and can’t really sell more equity w/o selling the team. 2013 could be a disaster with Niese, Parnell, Murphy, Ike, and Thole all hitting arbitration, with little money coming off the books otherwise. The team will probably eat up most of its cushion from the vanity sale in 2013.
Then 2015 — the first season Reyes hits $22m paydays — there is simply no way the team can afford to make a $22m mistake. Santana and Bay will be off the books but all of the guys listed are Arb 3 guys, and Ruben Tejada and Lucas Duda will hit arb too. Collectively, these eight guys right now make about $4 million. In 2015, they’ll average $4 million, if not much much more. That’s a huge jump.
But it’s a manageable one if done right, because that gets paid for with the money saved on Bay and Santana. Add two of Wheeler/Harvey/Familia/Mejia and an extension for Wright (?) and fill-ins like we’re doing this year, and you’re pretty close to our target budget. There may even be $10-20m to play with, but there won’t be $22m. And even if there were, we can’t commit to that now.
Learn something new every day: http://dlewis.net/nik
by Dan Lewis on Jan 17, 2012 1:02 PM EST reply actions 8 recs
What?! An extension for Wright???
Hmm, I seem to have gotten the impression he’s already gone.
Astro Traveler
Yahoo Sports and ESPN
continue to battle for the position for catering to the lowest common denominator of sports fan.
I typed your symptoms into this thing up here and it says you could have network connectivity problems.
Agreed! It's painfully bad.
Yet, why do I still go on their sports pages? Damn masochism.
"I used to be legit. I was too legit. I was too legit to quit. but now I'm not legit. I'm unlegit. And for that reason, I must quit."
Fantasy sports.
I typed your symptoms into this thing up here and it says you could have network connectivity problems.
yahoo sports is far worse in my opinion
I have yet to read an article from there that doesn’t leave me shaking my head wondering how these assholes got their job, whereas ESPN has some writers that actually do research for their job
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
Bleacher Report?
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 17, 2012 11:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
To be fair:
The Beltrain deal was ill-fated, for the Giants. The definition of “ill-fated” is “doomed or unlucky,” as per thefreedictionary.com. Obviously Beltran played very well for them, but he also missed a couple weeks with injury, and it wasn’t near enough to overcome the other difficulties SF had. Beltran was a 2-month rental to get the Giants into the playoffs and help them win there, and the big picture goal never happened. To continue with the car analogy, it’d be like renting a Maserati for a job interview so you can impress the people there, but getting stuck in traffic on the way and missing the interview anyway. The Maserati performed great, and without it you would have been ever later and less impressive, but in the end, you still dropped a lot of money (ie, Wheeler) for no real gain.
The rest of the critique is spot on though. Sad, I had thought Passan had muched improved in the past 5 or 6 years. This article sounds like it was ghost-written by Plaschke.
David Eckstein: so gritty they would eat him in the south for breakfast with some butter and sprinkle cheese.
by wrightHOF on Jan 17, 2012 1:16 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Hey guys, how's it going?
I’ve been really busy and haven’t commented much, oh I see we signed Ronny Cedeno, bully. Just stopping by to say I agree with Eric’s and everyone elses sentiment. See ya!
i have a haiku for passan
suck suck suck suck suck
suck suck suck suck suck suck suck
passan’s column sucked
HELLO HELLO MR WILPON... BUY THAT MANSION. WE DONT NEED A CONDO.
by kendynamo on Jan 17, 2012 1:27 PM EST reply actions 14 recs
A Great Reply to An Embarrassing Article
You really nailed it, Eric. I was appalled by the sheer uselessness of Passan’s column. You really hit what was wrong with it. Excellent work!
by Pastor William Jennings Bryan on Jan 17, 2012 1:38 PM EST reply actions
The real erroneous money quote, IMO, is this:
If Santana is 75 percent of his prime self, and if Mike Pelfrey and Jonathon Niese grow, and if R.A. Dickey’s hike up Kilimanjaro does nothing to his knuckleball, the rotation can save the Mets from losing an embarrassing number of games. It can’t help a lineup with all the pop of a Nintendo Duck Hunt gun.
This is the true giveaway that demonstrates that Passan simply doesn’t know the team that is subject of his article. The Mets scored the sixth-most runs in the National League last year – and the most in the NL East – all while playing in an extremely unfavorable environment for run-scoring. There’s no doubt that the losses of Reyes and Beltran will hurt them significantly in that department in 2012, but on the flipside, the Mets also suffered significant injuries to three of their top hitters who still remain with the club (Wright, Davis, Murphy) that caused them to miss significant time. If (and I realize it’s a big if) those players can be healthy and productive in 2012, their production, combined with some expected incremental improvement by players like Duda and Tejada as well as what will probably be a bump from the fence-moving at Citi, should hopefully keep the Mets scoring runs in 2012. It’s true that we probably won’t be living up to our team anthem by knocking/socking those home runs over the wall, but we didn’t do that last year either and that alone didn’t prevent us from scoring a lot of runs.
The real problem of the team remains preventing runs, a category in which the Mets were fourth-worst in the NL, and worst in the East, in 2011. Although the pen has hopefully been improved, the starting rotation is a significant weakness (and the lack of depth is scary), and the raw numbers can be expected to worsen, just as the raw offensive numbers can be expected to be improve, due to the fences moving in. Absent significant improvement from Niese/Pelfrey and/or a healthy and productive Santana, the rotation, after R.A. Dickey, is likely what will keep the Mets from contending, not the offense.
Putting aside all the other things that are wrong with the article, it’s amazing to me how he can get these basic facts this wrong.
by dontstopbelieving on Jan 17, 2012 1:52 PM EST reply actions 10 recs
The media doesnt let small things like facts get in the way of Met bashing
ESPN, Mike Francesa, NY Post, NY Daily News, Fox Sports = Propaganda
Blue and Orange, Green and White, Red and Black
Twitter: @BlueChill1123
A small edit/addition
And so it’s a decent car and the rent and the heat and the cable bill and the groceries. All of which is to say: It’s not a Maserati…
…and once you get your Maserati your wife divorces you because the bank takes your house and you lose your job because you were sleeping in your Maserati and hadn’t showered in two weeks, and then the repo men come and take your Maserati.
by crazycarLUXC on Jan 17, 2012 1:53 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
The fact that he bashed Wilpon and highlighted the Selig-Wilpon cronyism
is enough for me to overlook the other 99.9% of the article. He could have bashed the Mets for not signing Reyes to a Ryan Howard deal and I wouldn’t have cared.
Also, QUERY
don’t many Mets beat writers regularly produce equally infuriating substanceless surface mush?
s/national/dumb
Otherwise, right on the money and no minced words. Love it.
How was it "right on the money?"
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only BLUE WALLS.
The 2012 Mets: Fortune cookie says come back in 2015
Amazin' Avenue,
shooting fish in a barrel since 2005.
(I kid because I love.)
by SuperT on Jan 17, 2012 3:36 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Amazin' Avenue,
shooting fish sports writers who should know better a barrel in the balls with a 10 gauge since 2005.
(I kid I’m not kidding because I love hate them all.)
__________________________________________________________________
Really good kid.A very good player.Not a superstar. #BlameWilponz. Never Forget
by ScottfromPeekskill on Jan 17, 2012 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
preaching to the choir
now, if you could get this posted over at Yahoo! sports so people who thought this guy was credible could read this, then this article would have been worth your time writing.
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
Eric
You are a critical little bastard! But you are absolutely right on everything you write (unless you disagree with my point of view) and this is no exception.
Well written, well broken down and very much on the point.
I am glad your on our side.
__________________________________________________________________
Really good kid.A very good player.Not a superstar. #BlameWilponz. Never Forget
by ScottfromPeekskill on Jan 17, 2012 5:48 PM EST reply actions
This is an extremely well written piece.
applause
Arteta, it's all about the right pass it goes left to the left foot of VAN PERSIE
Proud member of Fusillade and The Short Fuse
This
article (the one written here, not Passan’s) is awesome, mainly because there is a similar article on Bucsdugout (here) about a similarly poorly written Passan article. Generally, I like Passan, actually I thought he did a great job of covering the new CBA, but here he’s over his head.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Jan 17, 2012 6:00 PM EST reply actions
Passan's article makes B_______ R_____ articles look intelligent
ESPN, Mike Francesa, NY Post, NY Daily News, Fox Sports = Propaganda
Blue and Orange, Green and White, Red and Black
Twitter: @BlueChill1123
Eric, I love Amazin Avenue and I love your work but you sound really over-the-top on this one
I really think the offseason is getting to you people (you people being Mets fans who are around the team every day, reading and writing, even in the offseason).
Passan, for the most part, is right. The Mets are going to be BAD. But you really have to be purposely misapprehending his point if you distill his article down to this:
1. The Mets should have signed Jose Reyes, cost be damned.
2. There’s no real difference between a medicore team and a miserable one.
Clearly, the entire point of his article is that if the Mets were going to spend the money, they should have done it on Reyes, and NOT those other pieces. And they DID spend the money. And his point is compelling — whether or not you agree with it (and remember, you can add Ramon Ramirez and Mike Pelfrey at $5.5MM to that total too). I’m not saying that I agree with him either, but the Mets DID spend the money and its certainly arguable — never does he imply that Reyes should be signed regardless of cost.
Nor does he assert #2 — he simply states that spending the money on the most meaningless and most volatile part of a team is probably not wise for a team at the bottom of the cycle. He’s granting that the money will be spent.
Now, here’s the part of your article, quoting Passan then commentary, that actually made me post this comment:
“Wait on starting-pitching studs Matt Harvey, who could arrive this season, and Zack Wheeler, who Alderson stole last year in San Francisco’s ill-fated Carlos Beltran deal. The Mets’ farm system remains thin on impact position players.”
Beltran hit .323/.369/.551 with the Giants, but screw that, #BlameBeltran.
Really? Where on earth do you see him blaming Beltran for anything? I love the #BlameBeltran meme, but this is what cemented to me that you need to take a vacation from the Mets and rest your poor heart because I think they’re killing you. That trade WAS ILL-FATED for the Giants — not because Beltran was bad or to blame, but because they traded a great prospect to make a run at the playoffs and fell on their faces. He makes no representations as to how Beltran performed.
Remember, love ya baby, love AA, but I’m trying to keep it fair here.
by Brian Mangan on Jan 17, 2012 7:03 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
Oh, and Passan is wrong about a bunch of crap in the article as pointed out above
But I don’t think it deserves this treatment (he’s wrong about the Met offense being subpar, and about the financial troubles easing after 2012, for example).
by Brian Mangan on Jan 17, 2012 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
subpar is a relative term
For a “big market” team, I suppose we are sub-par, especially when you look to the Bronx, or Boston, or 90 miles south. If the Mets were in, say, the midwest….they would be on par with most teams.
One day, this team is going to kill me.
Unless you don't plan on filling out a full 25 man roster
comparing one players salary to like 6 others isn’t a fair comparison. So even if Jose’s salary does equal those other guys what is Jose gonna pitch, as well as back up himself and three other positions? I mean I love Jose, but I don’t think that’s close to a reasonable expectation.
by SoCal Metfan on Jan 17, 2012 8:04 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Those spots would be filled by minor leaguers or other making close to the minimum.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
by Ogre39666 on Jan 17, 2012 8:49 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
So essentially
Chris Schwinden would be your 5th starter, Josh Stinson/Pedro Beato/Danny Herrera would fill important roles in the bullpen and you’d have Nick Evans and Luis Hernandez on the bench?
Sorry but it seems to me like that replacement level muck would take away any positive that Reyes over Tejada would give you. I love Jose but if you were going to re-sign him, you’d need the money the sign the bullpen guys, bench guys and a 5th starter just to make sure that those spots aren’t totally abysmal. And I understand Reyes would be signed longterm but if you’re re-signing him, it makes little sense to punt 2012. In that situation, you can’t waste a season of Reyes in his prime.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Jan 17, 2012 9:12 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
The theory hinges on the Wilpons not dragging the team down forever.
And I disagree that re-signing Reyes means you can’t use 2012 as a rebuilding year.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
A simple WAR calculation shows that Reyes would be more valuable
But that’s not really the point.
Besides, we’ve acknowledged above that there is a difference between a mediocre team and a bad team in terms of quality.
I submit that I’d rather see a 75 win team with Reyes than a 77 win team with Francisco and Rauch.
by Brian Mangan on Jan 17, 2012 9:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'd rather have Reyes for 5+ years
Than 1 years band-aids of Fransico, Ramirez, etc.
Reyes was the only entertaining thing on the Mets last year
with the possible exception of R.A. Dickey.
I understand the logic that Reyes wasn’t worth the contract he got, and better that the Mets pass.
But I’m not going to sit there and pretend there is any reason to watch this baseball team in 2012. There isn’t.
by aronofsky40 on Jan 18, 2012 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
Okay.
So don’t watch. Bye!
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Jan 18, 2012 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
yet if they come out and play .500 ball til June
you’ll be wanting to trade the whole farm for some shitty quick fix and pipedream? This team won’t be nearly as bad as people are making it out to be. They could still win half their games or more, the season hasn’t started yet and who cares what it looks like on paper
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
what is a medicore team ?
sounds like something run by Ray Ramirez
(kidding, I know it is a spelling error)
One day, this team is going to kill me.
Correction
MediCore is when savvy front offices allot money toward a supercharged trainers’ staff to prevent and rehabilitate injuries. Like Passan said the 09 Mets shoulda had.
by Manic McReynolds on Jan 18, 2012 1:52 AM EST up reply actions
Generally people here lash out at anything the MSM says about the Mets
It’s like we all know that the Mets have been a poorly run joke of a franchise these past few years, but if someone from the MSM says that, then they are just picking on us.
"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell
When the core of the argument is lacking sense, yes
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 18, 2012 12:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't mind writers criticizing the Mets
as long as there is at least some point or substance to the piece. I don’t need some dumbshit beat writer or humorless Twitter comedian regurgitating non-information that I already know and already don’t care about.
"Let them be stud muffins"
-Tom Seaver
Proud Mets, Jets, Knicks, Islanders fan.
by piazza62 on Jan 18, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hey, did ya hear?!
The Mutts still pay Bobby Bonilla and will pay him for another 20 years!!!1one1
#LOLMets, amirite?
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Jan 18, 2012 9:48 PM EST up reply actions
Okay.
You’re promulgating the same fallacy that Passan fell for about spending all of your money on one great player instead of a handful of average players. You need to construct a full roster here.
“But wait,” you’ll argue, “We can just promote detritus from the farm system to take those roster spots!” Sure, if you really don’t care how the team is going to turn out. I do. Then Passan said this:
Trying to piecemeal [sic] together a ballclub like the Mets have done almost never works. Incremental upgrades work for contending teams.
This is point #2 in my adumbration of his article. Passan seems clearly to be arguing that if the Mets aren’t going to be great, they might as well just be terrible. I find that premise to be absurd.
His main argument is that the Mets should have just signed Jose Reyes and that doing so was essentially a no-brainer, in spite of all the perfectly good reasons not to sign him which Passan casually dismissed. I wanted Jose Reyes back, but not for the contract he signed.
Regarding Beltran, I interpreted his “ill-fated Carlos Beltran deal” comment to be yet another in a long line of misplaced jabs at Beltran for failing to move mountains. As others have argued here, Passan may have just been illustrating that the deal didn’t work out for the Giants because they didn’t make the playoffs, but I suspect there’s an implicit dig at Beltran. Could be that absorbing the last five years of irrational Beltran hatred is getting to me.
by Eric Simon on Jan 18, 2012 1:07 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What is with this use of 'piecemeal [sic]'?
Where I come from [sic] is used to tell the reader that a word misspelled in the work quoted was misspelled in the original, so it’s not a typo or a mistake by the quoter. That obviously doesn’t apply here, since ‘piecemeal’ is a perfectly good and correctly spelled word.
So, what is the [sic] for?
It means that the preceding word is grammatically incorrect,
but that’s how the original writer wrote it. In other words, it denotes that the bad grammar is Passan’s, not Eric’s.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 18, 2012 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
I guess that means my grammar is as bad as Passan's.
He verbed a noun; I do that all the time. Hey, look! I did it again!
But, thank you for explaining, BobbyV.
Yeah, piecemeal isn't a verb, it's a noun or adjective.
Could’ve explained that more clearly.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 19, 2012 5:48 PM EST up reply actions
Either they can compete soon or not
If the Mets have any chance to compete at all over the next few years, then it might make sense to sign Reyes, but it doesn’t make any less sense to fix the pen.
If the Mets have no chance at all to compete over the next few years, then signing Reyes would be a heck of a lot more foolish than fixing the bullpen. Noone is going to want to be paying Reyes $20M a year in his mid-thirties.
by acerimusdux on Jan 19, 2012 11:34 PM EST up reply actions
if Passan wrote an Applesauce
I’m pretty sure it would read mets sign another player not named Jose Reyes for the whole offseason.
on a side note: Agreed Eric, great article filling holes is so much more important than one player as much as it pains me to say it. At least they spent the money and didn’t put it towards the loan like I feared they might do.
a question/discussion point
if the mets were not owned by the wilpons (i.e. had the money of a big market team that hadn’t relied heavily on fictitious profits from a ponzi scheme), would jose reyes be worth six years at 100-110 million? my guess is yes. i think you take the risk on a homegrown, top tier shortstop.
...And Dickey pounds Poo-Holes inside
maybe
but then you would have to ask why no other teams other than the Marlins came close to that figure? I agree he would be worth more to the Mets, so perhaps you are correct, but you would be paying for the fact that you could retire his number one day.
Am I doing this right?
by brooklynberger on Jan 17, 2012 11:03 PM EST up reply actions
This was covered multiple times at AA in the month or so prior to Reyes signing.
My recollection was that as a group we didn’t think $100 million was out of line, but few of us would be willing to guarantee the sixth (or seventh) year. I was personally willing to go seven years/$129.5 million, but with the last two seasons optional. Of course, I had no idea how dire the Mets’ financial situation was.
I kinda disagree with your opinion
that a mediocre team is significantly more enjoyable to watch than a bad team. Neither is really any fun to watch IMO.
This is crazy.
The Mets were a mediocre team in 2011 but were extraordinarily fun to watch most of the time.
by Eric Simon on Jan 18, 2012 12:49 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Interesting, but I think once you get below .500, the individual players are what matter most
The 2004 Mets were a lot more enjoyable than the 2003 Mets, and they were horrible, but they had gotten rid of Alomar/Cedeno/Vaughn/Burnitz/Benitez.
Could explain how 2011 wasn’t as tortuous as we were expecting it to be.
If so, would be a bad portent for 2012 with Carlos and Jose gone.
by Brian Mangan on Jan 18, 2012 1:09 AM EST up reply actions
just like I hope these past few years to
those years blended together into one big pile of shit, with not enough Mike Piazza kicking ass due to injuries
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
No they were not fun to watch at all
I don’t know what team you were watching…
You know what team WAS fun to watch? The Phillies.
Flagged
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf. "
– Tug McGraw when asked about his preference for grass or astroturf
by Terry_is_God on Jan 18, 2012 1:42 AM EST up reply actions
Triple flagged.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Jan 18, 2012 1:57 AM EST up reply actions
False
Disgruntled Mets fan. I refuse to support the Wilpons with any of my dollars or tv ratings until they sell to a competent owner who can field a contending team more or less every year. You know, like the Yankees and the Sox do.
by aronofsky40 on Jan 18, 2012 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
Stop trolling
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 18, 2012 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
Ahem, and I quote
No they were not fun to watch at all
I don’t know what team you were watching…
You know what team WAS fun to watch? The Phillies.
by aronofsky40 on Jan 18, 2012 1:14 AM EST up reply actions
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
wait, you didn't get banned yet?
why can we have the mods from thestripedfish.com? I was banned within 5 minutes of trying to joke around a little. TRAID AERIK ZIMONE, SAIM PAGET, KANNENGLAZER and leave LOHAUS#34 in charge NOW PLZ
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
This is the point where I press the z button a bunch of times
to get to the next parent reply.
by TheBigStapler on Jan 18, 2012 9:15 AM EST up reply actions
How much of that enjoyment can as a result of watching Reyes play?
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
He's ONE player
Yes, he’s a great player, but he’s just one of 25. If he’s the only reason you were watching Mets games, then…well I don’t know what to say.
Going along with this, I find it really bizarre that this above all else was the straw that broke the camel’s back for some people.
It wasn’t the two collapses. It wasn’t the complete and total embarrassment on and off the field for the team. It wasn’t the Jason Bay signing. It wasn’t Perez being resigned. It wasn’t five consecutive years without playoffs and three consecutive years under .500.
It was the supposedly “shocking” leaving of a player who every single sign in the last 9 months pointed to leaving. A player whose contract was only friendly in the first two years, two years where the team had little to no chance of competing with or without him. A player who had missed significant time in each of the last 3 seasons, and took on a contract that is severely backloaded, which was an Omar Minaya specialty.
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only BLUE WALLS.
The 2012 Mets: Fortune cookie says come back in 2015
by Syler on Jan 18, 2012 2:03 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think it was just the final straw for many
who got comfortable with the NY, and specifically Omar, way of putting together a roster by throwing as much money at specific players as possible.
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
It was Ike and then Duda for me
I was born in 1990 so before Wright the only homegrown powerhitting Mets I got to see were Butch Huskey and Rico Brogna.
"Let them be stud muffins"
-Tom Seaver
Proud Mets, Jets, Knicks, Islanders fan.
by piazza62 on Jan 18, 2012 8:49 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Of course, you can obviously derive pleasure
from anything you want to.
But with Ike only getting 150 plate appearances, and Duda was really only on track for about 20 homers.
That’s not a ton of entertainment value for me personally.
If they had some guys hitting 40 – 40 bombs, that’d be a much different story.
But they don’t, because the Wilpons are completely inept owners.
I would have to think maybe 90%
with 10% from Dickey, who’s pretty cool.
How could watching anyone else on this team be enjoyable? I can’t even imagine.
I'm appalled
that you can call yourself a baseball fan and not find a baseball team enjoyable to watch.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Jan 18, 2012 11:33 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Really?
I don’t enjoy watching crappy teams or even mediocre teams. I enjoy watching good teams compete.
Just personal preference.
Anyway, even though I’m a Mets fan, I derived a lot of pleasure from watching the Phillies this year. With that pitching staff, they brought a high level of entertainment value.
Like I said, the Mets brought nothing except Jose Reyes, who is now gone, and Dickey who is kind of enjoyable to watch except that he has a garbage lineup batting for him, which takes the air out of the game considerably.
Just my opinion though. Some people like vanilla, some people like chocolate. That’s the way it is when you get into something as subjective as “entertainment value.”
If you call yourself a fan of a team, it doesn't depend on just one player
or if they’re good or not. If you only watch teams because they’re good, you’re a frontrunner. Simple as that.
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only BLUE WALLS.
The 2012 Mets: Fortune cookie says come back in 2015
by Syler on Jan 19, 2012 1:07 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I'd rather be a front runner
than a shill and apologist for the Wilpons.
But your philosophy is the one they hope everyone goes with, of course.
Um, what makes you think I like the Wilpons?
I loathe them with every bone in my body, and I will do an Irish jig the day they sell the team.
I’m not going to stop watching the Mets because of them, because I like baseball and I like the Mets.
Go watch the Phillies then, but don’t call yourself a Mets fan, if you’ll only watch them if they win 90 plus games.
My fanship doesn’t depend on how good they are, or Jose Reyes. Yeah losing him sucked, but eventually, I got the fuck over it. Other people need to as well.
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only BLUE WALLS.
The 2012 Mets: Fortune cookie says come back in 2015
by Syler on Jan 19, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Rec'd
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 19, 2012 7:25 PM EST up reply actions
There's nothing worse than a frontrunner.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 19, 2012 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
that's ban worthy, right?
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
Absolutely.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 20, 2012 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
Nice Essay
It’s a provocative title, and it’s well supported. Really.
It’s telling that, having read Passan’s stuff, and seeing the size of the excerpted text you quoted (which by their size I knew comprised around half of Passan’s total piece), I didn’t feel the need to consult the source until you alluded to the haiku . . .
which made me click on the source . . .
which was my worst use of 60 seconds in, like, a month.
Still give Passan credit for “vanity-share-stabilized Fred Wilpon.” If you’re sh#tti#g away time reading about baseball, you could do far worse than the Yahoo guys. Probably hold higher WAR vs other sports/baseball writers than their parent company does against its competition!
by Manic McReynolds on Jan 18, 2012 1:41 AM EST reply actions
yeah you could be reading articles by ESPN or Sports Illustrated
but seriously, why should any of us be wasting time on yahoo articles anyway? ever seen the comments made by those yahoos there?
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Jan 18, 2012 8:20 AM EST up reply actions
OMG.
It’s like they’re being paid to be stupid.
aside from bleacher report
I have yet to find a ‘MSM’ source that gets away with assuming I am more of a dumbass than Yahoo. I have never read anything insightful, enlightening or original at that site, instead I am always shaking my head in disappointment for giving them another chance as I go off to a better site
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!


































