Fielder to sign...
With the Tigers? Didn't see that one coming.
Discuss.
For those wondering, deal is reportedly worth $214M over 9 years.
4 months ago
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Pretty crazy
No one saw this one. coming. That is a sick middle of the order the Tigers are gonna have. I’m glad the Nats didn’t sign him.
What you said.
I’m glad no team not named the Mets in the NL east didn’t sign him.
Glad he landed in the AL.
by MetsFan4Decades on Jan 24, 2012 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
Let's look at this one...
The Marlins have Hanley Ramirez, the Tigers have Miguel Cabrera, the Angels (presumably) have Kendrys Morales/Mark Trumbo, and a rotation of Dan Haren, Ervin Santana, and Jared Weaver.
Reyes to the Marlins, Fielder to the Tigers, Pujols and Wilson to the Angels. Fucking logic.
37 - 14 - 41 - 31 - 17 - 42 - SHEA
by piazza62 on Jan 24, 2012 3:11 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Addition...
by addition.
Hmm, these new GM’s and their complicated thinking.
__________________________________________________________________
Really good kid.A very good player.Not a superstar. #BlameWilponz. Never Forget
by ScottfromPeekskill on Jan 25, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
it's the new market inefficiency
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
Now we know how VMart hurt his knee
Boras pulled a Tonya Harding.
by graves9 on Jan 24, 2012 3:20 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
How does Boras get this done
He goes from no suitors willing to give more than 5 years to a 9 yr deal. WTF I hate Boras,
don't hate the agent
the GM’s don’t have to agree to those ridiculous demands
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
I just feel there are other pieces the Tigers needed
Like a competent leadoff hitter, and more pitching. They already have one of the best slugging first basemen in baseball locked into a ridiculous contract…. Why sign Fielder?
Kinda feels like a gross overreaction to losing Victor Martinez.
They have Austin Jackson to lead off
Yeah, I know about his OBP, but Jose Reyes was the same type of hitter when he first came up (albeit younger and with MUCH less K’s) and he can improve too.
37 - 14 - 41 - 31 - 17 - 42 - SHEA
not even close
Jackson is a K machine and had like a .390 BABIP his rookie year.
Am I doing this right?
by brooklynberger on Jan 24, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
Jackson is much more a #9 hitter
than he is a leadoff guy.
This
Is very accurate.
Mets, Devils, Jets, Knicks
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Dickey be Praised!
by santana9237 on Jan 24, 2012 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
Fister-Scherzer-Porcello-Turner
Is actually damn solid…
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by santana9237 on Jan 24, 2012 11:14 PM EST up reply actions
if you have the $$ and can sign a Fielder you do
he is the typ eof player you sign, and maybe Victors injury pushed them. but he makes th eteam better…and they were already pretty good. Verlander, Cabrera and Prince
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
by Rickfansince76 on Jan 25, 2012 4:28 AM EST up reply actions
He's also a huge regression risk.
Not to mention that he plays a position they already had filled, and the end result of this means that their infield defense is going to be pretty awful.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 26, 2012 12:17 AM EST up reply actions
Hes fit for the DH
good move. When is VM’s contract over?
oh shit really?
What are they going to do with him?
by Mike Clemente on Jan 24, 2012 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
I live in Detroit
so i hear them talking about it all day, from what i hear the spoke with Cabrera before the signing and he agreed to move to 3rd
i'd be excited if I was a detroit fan
defense be damned
by Mike Clemente on Jan 24, 2012 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
His move to third base makes my fantasy baseball team excited
Always draft Cabrera at 1st base. Now, I won’t have to deal with Mark Reynolds at third anymore!
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 24, 2012 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
yep
JoeyBats just got some competition as the 1st 3B to be drafted
by secret defense on Jan 25, 2012 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
I'm so pissed I passed on him last season.
I said to myself, “I think Heyward is more likely to have another good season than he is”. That did not work out as I thought it would.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 25, 2012 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
well, at least he's out of the NL
But that seems like a ridiculously long contract for a guy whose body seems ripe for a Mo Vaughn-type breakdown.
Mark Cuban for owner! Save us from the Wilpons!
Yeah, this looks like a really bad bet to me
They’ll get good production from him for the first couple years, but wow, the long-term prognosis is bad. Still, they took a very similar gamble on Magglio Ordoñez, which I thought was nuts at the time, and it turned out to be a pretty great deal. Maybe they know something.
Huh, really?
Seems like sort of a weird fit for him at first glance, but it will be interesting to see how that goes.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf. "
– Tug McGraw when asked about his preference for grass or astroturf
I guess Cabrera could shit back to third...
and make Wright relinquish the worst defensive third baseman in baseball crown.
Seriously, David Wright was the single worst third baseman in baseball when it comes to playing the field last year. Look it up.
Not only does this signing not make much sense in the first place, as the Tigers now have 3 1B/DH
types, but Fielder really is not worth that much. Fourth largest contract in history for an overweight, bad defensive first baseman? Really?
Meet Fielder
Try to find a 27 year old player with a resume like this:
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4613&position=1B
Most arguments are really about context.
by SheaWasBettor21 on Jan 24, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
Bad defensively, bad on the basepaths, up and down offensively is what I see.
I know that the ups are incredible and the downs are quite good, but they aren’t worth the fourth largest contract in history.
Let me rephrase: he is being paid like one of the best to ever play the sport when he is merely a
very good player.
Put that into perspective
The only other two players to earn a 200mm contract are Albert Pujols and Alex Rodriguez. Prince Fielder is good, but a tier or dozen below those players.
In the 90s this would be like paying Ray Lankford like Juniour Griffey.
37 - 14 - 41 - 31 - 17 - 42 - SHEA
by piazza62 on Jan 25, 2012 8:27 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I think you could argue
that Prince’s contract is a better investment than A-Rod’s last deal. Considering A-Rod’s age. A-Rod hasn’t had a 5 win season since 2008.
He's had basically three 4 WAR seasons (4.3, 3.8, 4.2)
I’d take his consistency, and even with his advanced age, DHing him can prolong his bat.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 25, 2012 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
Eh
I think defense is overrated, particularly at 1B. He’s a .400 wOBA bat, and a free agent at 27. Thats an elite free agent for me.
Most arguments are really about context.
by SheaWasBettor21 on Jan 24, 2012 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
Defense at 1B is overrated
That’s why it doesn’t count much in the stats. You know something is wrong when your defensive rankings are that bad.
37 - 14 - 41 - 31 - 17 - 42 - SHEA
What do you mean when you say defense is overrated?
Do you mean that when ground balls hit to your slow, fat first baseman frequently roll by him and turn into singles and doubles, it doesn’t lead to real runs?
He's not that slow.
He’s an athletic big man. I don’t buy into defensive metrics. I watch plenty of Brewers games, and I think he’s fine.
Most arguments are really about context.
by SheaWasBettor21 on Jan 24, 2012 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
And yeah, he's obviously quick and strong and athletic for a guy of his build
If he wasn’t, he wouldn’t be a major league player.
But the numbers aren’t just made up.
Ike Davis has averaged 0.78 assists per game at 1B in his career. Fielder, 0.54. Meaning (just by the raw data), every 4 games, Ike throws out 3 baserunners and Prince throws out 2. That’s 40 extra hits a year for Prince’s opponents!
While I generally agree with the notion that
1b defense can be misleading and at times overblow with defensive metrics, I think there’s a very tangible chain effect that happens with Prince signing in Detroit, even if Prince is and remains to be a capable defensive 1b. The plan as advertised is to make Prince the every day 1b, moving Miggy to 3b. So maybe Prince is a decent 1b that has been underrated by defensive metrics, but his presence puts Miggy’s glovework at third. That is likely a very tangible downgrade of defense there. There is zero doubt that no matter the uncertainty of defensive metrics at 1b, Miggy is going to be a way, way, way below average third baseman.
Like Dombrowski said a few days ago, Prince just doens’t seem like a good fit in Detroit. But hey, I’m not signing the checks, nor rooting for their team, so good for them, trying something different. Maybe they saw what the Brewers did with defensive positioning, and feel like they can negate some of the defensive deficiencies, and just bash opponents into submission.
by SoCal Metfan on Jan 24, 2012 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
Where is this notion of him being a
“way, way, way below average third baseman” coming from. He was slightly below average when he played from 2006-2008. He hasn’t been a horrendous first baseman. He’ll be fine at 3b, especially since his bat will be #1 in the league there.
by Mike Clemente on Jan 24, 2012 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
he's 4-6 years older and slower
The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Jan 24, 2012 8:57 PM EST up reply actions
Cabrera hasn't regularly played 3rd since 2007 for a reason
This is what he looked like when he actually playe third regularly:
http://www.rotorob.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/Miguel_Cabrera.jpg
It should be noted that even back then he was considered a below average 3b.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1744&position=1B/3B/OF#fieldingadvanced
Now look at him now:
http://media.mlive.com/terpstake/photo/9297894-large.jpg
He’s filled out, and can reasonably be expected to be slower, and you’ll note from the previous fangraphs link that he was considered a well below first baseman, a position considered much easier on the defensive spectrum.
So no, it is not any real leap of faith to assume he’ll be pretty bad at 3b. Does his bat make up for it? Most likely, since he’s an absolute beast with the stick, but we don’t need to gloss over his defensive deficiencies to make that point. By all means, maybe he’s “fine” at 3b, if you consider a really bad defender who can overcome that with prodigious hitting to be “fine”. But at least defensively, there is no doubt he’s a downgrade defensively (especially from someone considered a Plus glove, like Inge).
by SoCal Metfan on Jan 25, 2012 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
This only matters...
….when Vmart returns, and by then, I’m guessing they will trade someone.
Most arguments are really about context.
by SheaWasBettor21 on Jan 24, 2012 11:34 PM EST up reply actions
Signing Fielder to trade Cabrera
That might go down as the most ridiculous move in the history of professional sports. It’s like moving Randy Johnson for Mark Langston, outrageous.
37 - 14 - 41 - 31 - 17 - 42 - SHEA
Not that I really disagree
But I think they’re well placed to get a pretty good return on either Cabrera or Martinez, rather than just moving one of them as a salary dump because they have a logjam of really good hitters. And I think it’ll happen sometime more like 1-1.5 years from now, not soon.
Actually no my point is that it does matter before VMart returns
Note that I’m not saying it makes them worse for 2012, but it’s not like Prince’s presence just adds his stick to the lineup (if they don’t exclusively DH him). The point of my post is that the move doesn’t exist in a vacuum, there is a chain of events that occurs if he is played primarily at first.
by SoCal Metfan on Jan 25, 2012 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
They are going to regret this deal so hard
Honestly, Fielder is most likely not going to be worth $24M in 2012, much less 2014, much much less 2016, much much much much much less 2018….after which the Tigers will still owe him another $48M.
He's just beginning his prime.
It’s possible we haven’t seen his best yet.
Most arguments are really about context.
by SheaWasBettor21 on Jan 24, 2012 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
Even if we haven't, based on other players with a similar physical make-up
and coupled with his own father’s example, it probably isn’t going to last very long. Mind, you, he is better than his father was, but the future is not looking too bright.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 24, 2012 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
Aren't big guys' pries earlier then normal size players too?
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
Primes, I am assuming?
I recall reading something to that effect somewhere, in effect. Not necessarily that they peak physically younger, but that, because of their sizes and builds and whatnot, they fall of a cliff earlier, and that those cliffs are steeper.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 24, 2012 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
yep, definitely
big guys finish pies (and everything else other than a marathon) faster than average size guys
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by Blame-everyone-else on Jan 25, 2012 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
Not if they're Takeru Kobayashi
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 25, 2012 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
Wow
Didn’t see those tigers there in the undergrowth… stealth hunting.
Will be a huge overpay almost certainly – I can see the last three years being downright awful – but they might get four years of passable 1B and maybe two more of his characteristically excellent slugging…
Still, this deal only exists because of the ongoing aberration that is the DH.
Roommate is a Royals fan
he’s pissed. This is possibly the best chance they have in the past… 20 years and next ten to really make a run at the AL central crown, and now Detroit really steps up to the plate and gets one of the premier hitters available.
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Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Jan 24, 2012 4:13 PM EST reply actions
Don't forget, when Detroit traded for Dontrelle Willis and Miguel Cabrera
They came in dead last, so there’s some hope. Good teams can always win despite the presence of other good teams.
37 - 14 - 41 - 31 - 17 - 42 - SHEA
Horrible move
I thought the Tigers had a relatively smart front office
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 24, 2012 4:17 PM EST reply actions
Mike Illitch wants to spend
I bet Dave D wasn’t a factor in this.
37 - 14 - 41 - 31 - 17 - 42 - SHEA
They'll be pretty good again next year but beyond 2012 this is going to cause some problems
Miguel Cabrera is signed through 2015, Fielder is now signed through 2020 (holy shit), V-Mart is signed through 2014 and Alex Avila isn’t even arb eligible yet. So you now have four players for three positions (C, 1B, and DH). Probably would have been better off signing somebody inexpensive to DH for this year and then spending that money to fill a longer term need next offseason. Still, I’m glad it’s not the Nationals even though I’d love for them to be stuck with another awful contract.
Unless you're the Yankees
with a seemingly bottom less pit of money, we all know how tying up your payroll in 4 or so high priced players for several years usually works out.
I guess you have to live through what it can do to your payroll and projections to actually get it?
by MetsFan4Decades on Jan 24, 2012 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
the only way giving him 9 years makes any sense is if they regularly DH him starting now
not in a few years when he starts to break down. If they can keep him from collapsing under the singularity-esque mass that is his body, he should be a good hitter for years to come, but it’s still too many years and too much money.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Jan 24, 2012 4:43 PM EST reply actions
They just need to get the dude to lose weight
I know nobody wants to go here, but I DO judge professional athletes who don’t do everything they can to get in shape. Unless he has a medical disorder preventing him from ever losing any weight, there’s no reason he should weigh this much.
Astro Traveler
I agree with this
I’m dead against ‘fattism’ in daily life but it’s common sense that as a sportsperson you should be busting your gut (literally) to be in the best shape you can as an athlete. This is so self-evidently not the case with Fielder.
Or Cabrera
If he got back to his playing shape from ‘08, the move to 3B wouldn’t be so horrific in everyone’s eyes.
You always root for laundry. Of course, you'd like to have good players in that laundry as well.
Hey, Cabrera has had 5.3, 6.3, and 7.3 WAR seasons as a chunk,
so I’m good with looking however he wants as long as he continues putting up those offensive numbers. Shifting back to third, it’s likely he’ll return to 5 WAR or so seasons because of the defense (which he was never all that great at), but as long as the stick stays the same…
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 25, 2012 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sure it will
Just noting how it wouldn’t be such a horrible prospect to general opinion if he had actually bothered to stay in shape. He could probably at least “fake it” at 3B. I think any shortcomings he has at 3B now will be magnified because 1) the Fielder signing, and 2) because of his weight.
You always root for laundry. Of course, you'd like to have good players in that laundry as well.
If they win a WS in the next 3-4 years
it’s worth it.
If they don’t, they effed up. Big time. Probably.
Tigers insisted on having a weight clause put into contract.They wanted to give him a lifetime membership
to Jenny Craig but she was afraid of being eaten.
by Putnan Prince on Jan 25, 2012 11:44 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
No women in the dugout!
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 25, 2012 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
I don't understand how a team that has access to the DH and employees both Miguel Cabrera and Prince Fielder
wouldn’t be putting one of them in the DH spot.
one does not simply walk into mordor...unless winter is coming
9 years is a long time for a fat fella to go without major injury.
Hope they know what they are doing.
__________________________________________________________________
Really good kid.A very good player.Not a superstar. #BlameWilponz. Never Forget
by ScottfromPeekskill on Jan 25, 2012 10:42 PM EST reply actions
when was the last time this much money was spent in one offseason? 2000?
I am actually pretty happy that we couldn’t sign any of the big names, especially to the deals they got. Those I expect to be good, I question their longevity and worry they are a risk to get biggish injuries at some point, while others (like Wilson) I just don’t think will be good. My feeling is that Mark Buerhle is the safest bet to keep doing what he has and stay healthy.
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
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