Expectations for 2012
I have been a Mets fan since 1969. Every decade has provided it's unique level of frustration. As we have embarked on a new one, many things have not changed. Pessimism abounds, having lost Reyes. Adding three new arms to the bullpen this offseason helps but it is not enough, as every other team in the N.L. has improved to some degree.
The Phillies have added a top notch closer (Papelbon) and a quality setup man in Chad Qualls. Former Met Ty Wigginton will hold the fort at 1B until Ryan Howard is back from injury. The Braves may start a rookie at SS, but are loaded with a bevy of quality arms. The Marlins sign Reyes, Buehrle, Bell, and a new manager, who convinces management to trade for an $18 million fifth starter (the Marlins will pay only $3 million of Carlos Zambrano's salary). There is also much optimism in Washington, where newly acquired Gio Gonzalez joins a healthy Stephen Strasburg atop a young rotation, and Brad Lidge is brought in to add a veteran presence/depth to the bullpen. And Bryce Harper is coming.
So where does that leave the Mets? The fan base clamored for them to spend money, yet many of the recent signings (i.e., KRod, Ollie, Castillo) were flops. The farm system has few gems, none yet ready for The Show. The fans vow to stay home if there isn't a contender on the field. As it stands, Mets' ownership's hands appear tied, the top free agents are all signed, and the Mets seem headed for a fifth place finish in front of empty seats.
That's reality. If Ya Gotta Believe, maybe they will surprise us. Ike, Murphy, Santana, Niese, Wright all come back from injury stronger than ever. Jason Bay returns to power-hitting prominence. The bullpen acquisitions hold it down for a resurgent Pelfrey, Dickey and Gee. Duda & Tejada embrace their everyday roles and produce like capable veterans. They finish third, around .500, and play meaningful games in September. Stranger things have happened.
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Fourth, and a little under .500
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 31, 2012 6:28 PM EST reply actions
I am expecting a WS title. Any less and I will be deeply dissappointed with this franchise.
Yogi on the 1969 NY Mets....." overwhelming underdogs "
by SuperSantana on Jan 31, 2012 6:35 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
This.
Anything less than a WS title is a failure.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 31, 2012 11:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This sounds familiar...
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Feb 1, 2012 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
I can see situations in which the Mets have a great season next year
The Mets have had seemingly awful luck the past two years, but despite all their injuries, down years, disappointments, they’ve had pythagorean win-loss records of 81-81 and 79-82. If they had stayed healthy, and played like their selves, they could have made the playoffs every year 2009-2011. They had the 6th best ERA in the NL in 2010 despite a very mediocre, on paper, staff. In 2011, they had the 6th best offense in the NL despite having no power, injuries, and a traded Beltran.
In my opinion, the 2010-2011 Mets rosters were not significantly better than the 2008 roster that contended. That team just had stayed healthy. All I hope for this season is individual success stories. Players bounce back, progress, and have a clean bill of health. Get enough of those and you can be in the hunt late into the season.
I’d like to see this season play out before I get all bullish on the Nats and Marlins. The Nats could be great, but don’t forget how some had predicted Oakland to win the division in ‘11 with their incredible young pitching rotation and the bats they brought in. Didn’t work in the slightest for them.
The Marlins are one Reyes injury away from falling apart. Anibal Sanchez and Josh Johnson have histories of arm injuries. What are they going to do if one of them goes down, LeBlanc, Hand? What are they going to tell Hanley after they give his position to Reyes, who gets hurt and someone else is playing short? He won’t respond well when that happens.
37 - 14 - 41 - 31 - 17 - 42 - SHEA
I think some of the Nats young talent
already here (Strasburg, etc.) and coming up this year still have a little ways to go. Time will tell.
The Marlins? I’m going with the classic example of trying to buy a contending team and have said team flop.
Seriously, the Marlins SP might be a little light.
by MetsFan4Decades on Jan 31, 2012 9:08 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, for all the coverage they've gotten, the Marlins are still a very, very fragile team
Their starting rotation outside of Johnson and Buerhle are still pretty questionable (Sanchez, Nolasco, and Volstad, I guess), middle relief is pretty weak.
Same with the Nats, for all the coverage they’ve been getting about improving and such.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 31, 2012 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
JJ himself is questionable
he never stays healthy
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
Yes, but Zambrano is a huge question mark.
And then there’s his volatility off the field, too.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Feb 1, 2012 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
Zambrano was traded to them for Volstad?
Didn’t even know. Eh, doesn’t really change anything. In effect, Zambrano is Volstad.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 1, 2012 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
the fresh start
with a Latino manager in a Spanish speaking environment may produce a Zambrano pitching with “renewed vigor”!
What, there's no Latinos in Chicago?
Zambrano’s issue is not that he needs to be surrounded by other Latinos (and if it were, that’s a whole other problem), it’s that he’s a hothead whose control over his emotions is as poor as it is over his pitching.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Feb 1, 2012 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
More clouded racist underrtones
Wholly unintentional, I am sure, but…
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 1, 2012 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
I think Zambrano being called a hothead has a lot more to do with his shitty personality and fights with teammates
then t does with his ethnicity.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
Completely agree
The notion that he will can only play better-than-average baseball surrounded by more Spanish-speaking teammates, fans, restaurants, etc. is, however.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 1, 2012 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
nothing clouded nor racist about it;
Miami is bilingual city, the culture is in full view everywhere you go. Zambrano may feel more comfortable there and perform at a higher level.
And I agree with Ogre39666 wholeheartedly!
if that were true
wouldn’t that reflect more on the racism of Zambrano, that he feels more comfortable around fellow latino’s than white or black people?
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
Being Latino, I never intended it be a slur on his ethnicity.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Feb 1, 2012 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
No, not you
The notion Manny was proposing, that he needs fellow Latinos in order to be able to play baseball at a superior level.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 1, 2012 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
Which is a bullshit notion anyway.
Every MLB team has a few Latinos on it.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Feb 1, 2012 11:07 PM EST up reply actions
not NEED!!!!
sometimes an athlete needs a change of scenery, a different home ballpark, a different manager/pitching coach…all of these things, along with living environment can contribute to one’s success or demise. C’mon guys, we’ve seen it thousands of times, and not just with athletes; don’t get it twisted. Some artists are inspired by Paris or Rome, some musicians play better in smaller venues, thoroughbred horses may love the grass in Kentucky, etc.
by manny.cabral on Feb 1, 2012 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
That's true, but is also very different from what you initially were saying
vis-a-vis race.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 1, 2012 11:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I was referring to culture...
literally & figuratively, and in this case, confidence. The confidence that your new boss will have in you is priceless. However that confidence is conveyed, so be it.
by manny.cabral on Feb 2, 2012 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
A change of scenery
Where whatever it is, the player has just kind of not clicked because of the whatever variables he’s facing, and he gets a fresh start somewhere else, where those variables aren’t present, that’s fine. Getting away from a manager/front office you don’t like, and plugging into a team with a manager/front office you do like, that works. Specifically referencing ethnic culture, race, whatever, that’s where it gets hairy and turns into a very different beast.
If a white player on a team was playing in a predominantly black area, and it was said that he needs a team with more whites/fewer blacks to feel comfortable enough or whatever to play better than he might otherwise, that’d be decried as pretty racist, and rightly so. If a black player on a team was playing in a predominantly Jewish area, and it was said that he needs a team with more blacks/fewer Jews to feel comfortable enough or whatever to play better than he might otherwise, that’d be decried as pretty racist, and rightly so.
When it comes to Hispanic players in baseball, latent racist undertones have crept into the mainstream discussion such that people often don’t even realize the racism that is present. The scrappy white shortstop who hits .260/.330/.390 is “gritty” and is an overachiever, while the scrappy Hispanic shortstop who hits .260/.330/.390 is “lazy” and an underachiever. Paul O’Neil was “fiery”, while Milton Bradley is a “cancer”. Elijah Dukes being a douche criminal, people are like, “Well, it makes sense”. Scott Spezio being a douche criminal, people are all like, “Wow, that came out of nowhere. Who would have thought!” The notion that Hispanic players are (in effect) infantile who cannot handle things that we wouldn’t bat an eye at if the guy was white or black (Do we ever worry that white or black players can’t cut it in the winter leagues in South America and the Carribean?) is a watered-down rehash of one of the argument that kept blacks out of baseball until 1947- they wouldn’t be able to play to their best potential with white players, and it wouldn’t be fair to everyone involved, the white players and the black players, to do that to them.
Not that I am accusing you of racism or anything. It’s just one of those things that creeps into the subconscious. We’re all guilty of it every now and then.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 3, 2012 7:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
true blue
I agree with your points. The difference with Latino players is the obvious harsh change they encounter when entering a new country: a foreign language, laws, customs, etc. For some it could be ignorance; for others arrogance. Believe me, I’m not defending Zambrano’s previous behavior. I merely feel that the possibility of his success in a new start under the improved (for him) circumstances exists. Thanks for not accusing me of racism. For the record, I am a full-blooded American, born & raised in the Bronx (yet a Mets fan) of Latino descent.
by manny.cabral on Feb 4, 2012 12:44 AM EST up reply actions
He may have an anger management problem
but Ozzie must feel he can control/help him. They’re paisanos, which doesn’t hurt.
Seriously?
Ozzie Guillen is going to help another person with his anger management problems? That’s like asking Charlie Sheen to help throw an intervention.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Feb 1, 2012 9:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
it's a theory
why else would Ozzie go to management and recommend they get Z? Maybe the “takes one to know one” mentality is at play here.
by manny.cabral on Feb 1, 2012 11:03 PM EST up reply actions
Because Ozzie Guillen is terrible at roster construction,
and has an inflated opinion of his ability to manage a clubhouse.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Feb 1, 2012 11:06 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
well management listened this time
and I believe many managers may be terrible at roster construction (isn’t that why they have g.m.’s?). I also believe that every confident manager has an inflated opinion of his ability to manage a clubhouse. BobbyV_Incognito: Have you ever met Bobby V???
by manny.cabral on Feb 1, 2012 11:37 PM EST up reply actions
No, I've never met him.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Feb 2, 2012 12:43 AM EST up reply actions
and as poor as his control over his apettite
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
by astromets on Feb 1, 2012 10:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
the Mets have to over preform an dthe rest of teh NL under perform greatly
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
by Rickfansince76 on Feb 1, 2012 5:20 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not asking them to over perform
I just want them to perform. Stay on the field and try to produce every day is all I want them to do. They played well over 500 ball for most of last year, but a slow start and disastrous finish kept them from finishing over 500. Injuries, trades and the lolpen all considered they still had a pythag record of 79-82.
I can see the Mets winning 85-88 games if things go reasonably well for them. They have the talent and I’m not buying into the “we’re snakebitten baby” meme to change my mind.
37 - 14 - 41 - 31 - 17 - 42 - SHEA
by piazza62 on Feb 1, 2012 8:57 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Miami until I see otherwise is a house of cards, the Nats have the potential to do damage
ESPN, Mike Francesa, NY Post, NY Daily News, Fox Sports = Propaganda
Blue and Orange, Green and White, Red and Black
Twitter: @BlueChill1123
Been a fan since '68 myself.
As a kid watching and enjoying the heck out that ‘69 WS, I thought it was always going to be just that easy. Come the 70s and mid 80s, I had realized that wasn’t true.
1986 was my favorite season. But it’s been too long now. I know ’73 and 2000 were an almost and I really thought 2006 was going to be our year. Sigh…not to be.
by MetsFan4Decades on Jan 31, 2012 9:26 PM EST reply actions
ditto
If Yogi had only saved Seaver for Game 7…Don’t forget ’87 & ’88 as almosts…curse Pendelton & Scioscia!
84 not so much
They won 90 with a Pythag of 78. Mind you, back then I would have killed for 78 wins.
Ralph Kiner: You've gotta change the script, I don't like the script.
Gary Cohen: What's wrong with the script?
Ralph Kiner: Well the script should be the Mets win every day.
Yeah the '84 team played way over their heads
But I’ve heard my father lament on many occasions about how they had the division to themselves until Rick Sutcliffe came along…
37 - 14 - 41 - 31 - 17 - 42 - SHEA
Know the pain you must've suffered
Jealous of the extra 30 years of memories you got out of this team
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
oh yes
Despite the “droughts” of the late seventies (Seaver trade)/early eighties & the early/mid-nineties, a competitive team has always held our rooting interest. This last decade has to have been the most frustrating, as money was spent and “talent” did not produce the desired results. We can no longer blame M. Donald Grant for the lack of W’s.
signature
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
75 wins and a few games out of 4th place.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
Hope the Wilpons want to move the team to Hawaii
And the team are thus are forced to win the whole damn thing?
"WHO WOULD LEAD?! THE CLOWN?!"
by I'mGivingYouARaise on Feb 1, 2012 12:17 AM EST reply actions
I'm going to go with a top 5 offense in the NL (by wOBA and runs scored)
a top 3 bullpen in the NL (by FIP), and finish a little under .500 (78-84) because our starting rotation is grotesquely thin and Johan will pitch under 120 innings (4.5 ERA), Niese will pitch 150 (3.9 ERA), Dickey will pitch 200 (3.0 ERA), Gee will pitch 180 (4.0 ERA), and Pelf will pitch 170 (5.75 ERA), of which we’ll wish 170 never happened. The rest will be filled by org. filler pitchers because Sandy isn’t stupid enough to burn prospects before they’re ready, but we’ll curse the horrible starting pitchers he’s forced to trot out there on a regular basis. Ike Davis will hit 30 HRs, Lucas Duda 28, David Wright 33 hrs, Jason Bay will hit .275, and 15 HRs, but his walk rate will be low and k rate will be high (I’ll guess 8% and 19% respectively). Ruben Tejada will receive gold glove consideration (but ultimately not win) although he’ll put up a fairly empty .260 BA with a modest walk rate. Andres Torres will surprise us all with his offense, and will rapidly become a fan favorite.
To expand upon this prediction, even though we’re going to lose a lot of games, and not in glorious fashion I’ll still enjoy every minute of it, because its still Mets baseball, and even if it’s not pretty, thats good enough for me.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
I think if we have the #5 NL offense and #3 bullpen, we'll do better than 78-84
The starting rotation can’t be THAT much worse just by replacing Chris Capuano with Santana + AAAA guys.
It can if Santana is a complete bust, which seems all too possible
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf. "
– Tug McGraw when asked about his preference for grass or astroturf
If those 25 innings are two consecutive perfect games, and a seven-inning shutout, I'd be cool with them, though
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 1, 2012 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
i have him pegged to be injured, and not go too deep into a lot of games
i hope i’m wrong, but history and common sense dictate otherwise
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Feb 2, 2012 1:31 AM EST up reply actions
Why is Niese not pitching more innings?
He should get 34 starts, and is a lock for 5 innings when out there. That is 170 already. We also don’t know that Gee or Pelf will be with us the whole year – god I hope Pelf finds a groove and gets traded while his value is up again.
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
eh, i worry about the hammy. I've been optimistic elsewhere. Mets karma has to catch up somewhere
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Feb 2, 2012 1:31 AM EST up reply actions
so you expect more injuries?
Mets karma catching up would be Wheeler, Harvey and Familia all becoming ace-level pitchers by mid-season and us winning the next 10 WS
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
the way i've experienced karma is bad things happen to me, i do good things anyway, and more bad things then subsequently happen. I assume it works that way everywhere
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Feb 3, 2012 1:34 AM EST up reply actions
the world must have mixed up your bag of karma with someone else's
someone who was wearing a Yankees cap probably
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
No good deed goes unpunished.
In lobby for: Jaime Cevallos, Zack Lutz, orange unis and Rickroll as the 7th inning song.
The Unwritten Rules of AA
RA-men
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Feb 3, 2012 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
Phillies more likely
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Feb 3, 2012 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
Oh Eric
A 2012 Yankees/Phillies WS? Really?
Ugh….here’s hoping that prediction is wrong.
by MetsFan4Decades on Feb 1, 2012 7:15 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Everyone keeps saying the Mets are now the Orioles of the NL East
I just want them to prove that wrong
ESPN, Mike Francesa, NY Post, NY Daily News, Fox Sports = Propaganda
Blue and Orange, Green and White, Red and Black
Twitter: @BlueChill1123
Meh
I don’t buy it. Everyone in the NL East gets a turn to be awesome eventually. The Orioles are a bit more perennially screwed.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf. "
– Tug McGraw when asked about his preference for grass or astroturf

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