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Fan Projections of Key Mets

Have you projected your favorite Mets at FanGraphs yet? If anyone should put their stamp on that crowdsourcing effort, it should be our community, so consider this a plea to do so. Our reason may have to balance out some irrational exuberance, or vice-versa.

In the meantime, and in order to perhaps give you easy links to key figures, we'll look at what the fans have projected so far, compared to ZiPs, and discuss where the difference may have come from.

The numbers!

Star-divide

David Wright (project him)

G PA H HR R RBI SB BB% K% AVG OBP SLG
2011 102 447 99 14 60 61 13 11.6% 21.7% 0.254 0.345 0.427
ZiPs 2012 136 593 139 19 77 78 20 11.2% 21.4% 0.269 0.351 0.447
Fans 2012 150 658 169 27 94 100 27 11.1% 21.3% 0.289 0.366 0.497

We'll see the beginning of a trend here with the fans being more positive and ZiPs being more pessimistic, but it 's nice to see that ZiPs has the same opinion about Wright keeping his strikeout rate down. From our Project: David Wright piece, we can perhaps say that Hudgens has helped close that hole on the outisde part of the plate. Where the fans and ZiPs disagree is on health and power. It's hard to say if a fractured back means he'll have a hard time staying healthy, and it's hard to say if he'll get his power back. But he certainly can put up the numbers that the Fans are projecting. It's possible -- then again, if he hits those numbers, does he get traded?

Ike Davis (project him)

G PA H HR R RBI SB BB% K% AVG OBP SLG
2011 36 149 39 7 20 25 11.1% 20.8% 0.302 0.383 0.543
ZiPs 2012 99 411 92 15 47 51 1 11.2% 25.8% 0.255 0.338 0.449
Fans 2012 139 595 147 25 84 101 1 12.3% 20.2% 0.282 0.368 0.489

This is what happens when you miss most of a season early in your career, it seems. ZiPs sees nothing but a big hole in half your career and figures you've got problems staying healthy. But if it was just a one-time thing, then ZiPs will whiff on his playing time for sure. As for the strikeout rate -- you can see where that number came from. Davis struck out too often in Double-A and has that hitch in his swing. It's a warning sign to the young man, that he needs to make sure to make contact. Most of the power and OBP gap is explained by the difference in batting average, which is explained by that strikeout rate. So, how often do you think a guy that has whiffed on 9.6% of the pitches he's seen (8.5% is average) will strike out this year?

Ruben Tejada (project him)

G PA H HR R RBI SB BB% K% AVG OBP SLG
2011 96 376 93 31 36 5 9.3% 13.3% 0.284 0.36 0.335
ZiPs 2012 156 600 137 3 55 46 8 7.8% 13.7% 0.259 0.329 0.339
Fans 2012 146 600 152 2 59 65 10 8.8% 13.2% 0.278 0.35 0.338

We did practically a series of posts on Ruben Tejada's walk rate, but even those percentage points of difference in the projections are meaningful -- one's above average and one is below. Otherwise, it's just a few singles that separate these lines. Consensus? (Also, the fans so far have Tejada with a +1 run glove at shortstop -- do you think he can do better?)

Lucas Duda (project him)

G PA H HR R RBI SB BB% K% AVG OBP SLG
2011 100 347 88 10 38 50 1 9.5% 16.4% 0.292 0.37 0.482
ZiPs 2012 146 578 129 17 58 70 1 9.9% 21.5% 0.256 0.338 0.431
Fans 2012 138 575 147 23 87 91 2 10.3% 18.3% 0.285 0.366 0.49

El Dudaroni will get a full Project write up soon, but here we get a peek into what the issues will be. There isn't a ton of harmony between these two lines -- ZiPs doesn't agree with the Fans on Duda's ability to show the same power or contact in his sophomore effort. Looking up and down his player card, though, it's unclear why all the pessimism about his strikeout rate. The only time Duda struck out more than 20% of the time above High-A was in his 92-PA debut. The power? It's an open and obvious question. Take the plunge and opine.

Daniel Murphy (project him)

G PA H HR R RBI SB BB% K% AVG OBP SLG
2011 109 423 125 6 49 49 5 5.7% 9.9% 0.32 0.362 0.448
ZiPs 2012 106 403 106 8 42 52 5 6.5% 11.4% 0.286 0.334 0.432
Fans 2012 132 566 156 9 69 80 4 7.1% 11.5% 0.297 0.35 0.424

We actually have a fair amount of data on Murphy -- over 1100 PAS worth -- so it's not surprising that these projections line up. The biggest difference comes in playing time, where the Fans think that Murphy can actually make it through a semi-full year at second base. Can he protect his knee? Can he figure out the turn? Or do these fans think that Murphy is headed to third after a big trade? After a couple of years of plus defense around the infield -- numbers which might surprise some observers -- the Fans also penciled Murphy in for a scratch glove this year. Scratch at second, with those numbers... sounds good.

Josh Thole (project him)

G PA H HR R RBI SB BB% K% AVG OBP SLG
2011 114 386 91 3 22 40 9.8% 12.2% 0.268 0.345 0.344
ZiPs 2012 132 472 114 4 36 46 2 9.3% 11.7% 0.271 0.342 0.363
Fans 2012 123 496 124 5 55 61 10.1% 12.1% 0.278 0.354 0.361

Here, the question is about a few ticks of walk rate. Thole Mole has been pretty steady so far in his career, so this result isn't so surprising. Will he walk more like 2010 or 2011? Figuring that out is your mission, should you accept it.

Jason Bay (project him)

G PA H HR R RBI SB BB% K% AVG OBP SLG
2011 123 509 109 12 59 57 11 11.0% 21.4% 0.245 0.329 0.374
ZiPs 2012 119 501 107 16 60 63 9 12.2% 22.6% 0.249 0.344 0.419
Fans 2012 132 551 129 16 72 74 12 10.9% 21.6% 0.263 0.344 0.432

Surprised by the degree to which these lines agree? Perhaps the Fans are giving Bay a little more power from the new walls, but it's not showing up in the home run numbers. Their pessimism about Bay's walks is understandable. It's been a tough couple of years to watch the prized acquisition at the plate.

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27 steals for Wright?

Thats more than double last year. Its not 2009 anymore folks.

"RBI’s does measure something – Wins."
-Bayonne Mets Fan on MMO

by Dandy Salderson on Jan 5, 2012 10:10 AM EST reply actions  

Yeah that seems high

Though he did steal 9 in about 40 games before landing on the DL…he didn’t run much when he came back maybe b/c he was idle for so long and not fully back in game shape. And maybe the loss of the other SB guys- Reyes and Pagan will lead him to run a bit more to try to provide some of that missing element. Then again, the Mets might just go for power game and screw the SBs

by LGNYM on Jan 5, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions  

He only played 102 games last season

And about 20 of those were on a bad back. 27 may be on the high end, but he should get at least 20

by Evan_S on Jan 5, 2012 8:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Hmmm

Wright: I think the fans will be more reliable over ZiPS, because the fans know about his better health and changes to the stadium, whereas ZiPS can’t account for those future things (as far as I know).

Davis: Same thing as Wright above, regarding health, and the fact that he doesn’t have all that much of a track record.

Tejada: ZiPs seems about right to me. I think his BB rate will be a little higher than what it’s saying, though.

Duda: Fans seems closer, though I think his batting average will be a bit lower, and he’ll hit a few less home runs.

Murphy: Numbers are pretty much the same, but I think he’ll get into more games than ZiPs is projecting.

Thole: ZiPs sounds good to me.

Bay: Traid. ZiPs looks good.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 5, 2012 10:21 AM EST reply actions  

one thing about Davis

I’m sure that ZiPs takes MiLB numbers (maybe in the form of MLEs if he does it like Cartwright with OLIVER) into account, but I’m with you in a general way anyway. But it really could just be a feel thing.

by Eno Sarris on Jan 5, 2012 12:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I really wish Wright's K% wasn't so damn high

As for Bay..lol

"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell

by Rey-O on Jan 5, 2012 10:36 AM EST reply actions  

My FG projections were

I should preface this by saying I think FG’s projection machine is a little wonky in terms of what they have you enter. I also gave a small power bump to the LH bats to factor in the fences moving in.

Wright: .290/.360/.488 28 HR 99 RBI 16 SB -8 UZR: 4.7 WAR in 686 PA

I would say the OPS is about right, though the BA may end up lower, ISO higher. I might be a bit optimistic about the UZR/150 and maybe the playing time, too. Back injuries tend to be a chronic thing. Though I think he will play at least 140 games.

Davis: .269/.363/.477 24 HR 95 RBI +3 UZR: 3.5 WAR in 580 PA

I’m slightly more bearish on Davis’ health than Wright’s. I think it’s good to be conservative when projecting guys that missed as much time as him. Also, he could use some days off against tough lefties.

Tejada: .290/.352/.350 2 HR 59 RBI 0 UZR 2.4 WAR in 526 PA

I think Tejada can hit .290, don’t know if he will this year. He makes a lot of contact and while I don’t think the crazy 2011 LD% is sustainable, his minor league track record suggests the hit tool is at least average. I have no idea if he is a major league SS, so the UZR might be optimistic.

Duda: .271/.350/.485 24 HR 83 RBI -12 UZR: 2.1 WAR in 554 PA

I am really high on Duda’s bat. The rest of the package is a bit of a problem.

Murphy: .290/.343/.425 11 HR 67 RBI -7 UZR: 2.6 WAR in 608 PA

This assumes Murphy as a full time 2B. I basically gave him Skip Schumaker’s UZR/150, since that’s the closest comp for the position move that I can find.

Thole: .291/.365/.349 1 HR 53 RBI -2 UZR: 2.2 WAR in 420 PA

I’m bullish on Thole making some strides in contact and defense this year. This is probably a touch optimistic, but not crazily so.

Bay: .270/.343/.431 12 HR 59 RBI 10 SB -2 UZR: 1.8 WAR in 441 PA

This is probably too optimistic. I’d say there is probably a 40% chance that Bay is just done. If he can even be a 2 WAR player this year, that is a big boost to the Mets.

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by Jeffrey Paternostro on Jan 5, 2012 10:44 AM EST reply actions  

-7 UZR for murph?

What in his past record leads you to believe he will be a -7?

by Mike Clemente on Jan 5, 2012 1:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Nothing

The only thing we know about Murphy at second is that he hasn’t played there much. I’d say a guess of -7 is pretty fair.

Astro Traveler

by BlackOps on Jan 5, 2012 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Given the volatility of uzr scores

I wouldn’t be shocked, average fielders usually hover between -5 and 5 from what I can tell. -7 is a little low but not exceptionally pessimistic I suppose. His bat will more than make make up for any mild defensive shortcomings

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Jan 6, 2012 10:35 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

81-win team?

If you add up the WAR and give 2.0 conservatively for Andres Torres, that’s 21.3 Wins. I’m a little more optimistic in places and pessimistic in others, but I get to nearly the same total. If the 5 starters can average 2 WAR and get even 1 more from the bullpen, that’s about an 81-win team by my count. Given the Mets’ spending habits, projecting more than replacement level from the bench seems optimistic to me. With no Reyes and no Beltran, 81 wins seems like a good year to me!

So can Santana, Niese, Dickey, Pelfrey, Gee, Schwinden and door #7, plus the bullpen give us 11 or more WAR?

by Boz_Paladin on Jan 5, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I can't imagine Ike putting up a sub .500 slugging

He was slugged well over .500 last year with Citi’s old dimensions, and with the new dimensions I could definitely see him putting up a 550 slugging percentage.

by graves9 on Jan 5, 2012 11:43 AM EST reply actions  

His career SLG is .460

I’d love to think that Ike is going to hit 35 HR this year, but that’s a hope, not a projection.

by psiogen on Jan 5, 2012 11:48 AM EST up reply actions  

That's because he pt uop a .440 slugging in his rookie year

He’s a lot closer to the guy that put up a 540 slugging than the guy that .440 slugging percentage. He clearly has massive power and was on the way to a 30 homer season last year before his collision with Wright.

by graves9 on Jan 5, 2012 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I just don't think we know enough about Ike to project him capably yet

one has to either choose optimism or pessimism re: his 36 game showing last year, b/c he didn’t stay healthy long enough to go through a month-long cold streak (which he showed us he is more than capable of his rookie campaign…)

by BurleighGrimes on Jan 5, 2012 5:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Fair enough

I’m usually pretty pessimistic but between his power, patience and solid defense it’s hard not to get excited about him. That said, who knows how he plays coming off an injuy and he’ll have to deal with that waste of skin Ray Ramirez.

by graves9 on Jan 5, 2012 6:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I could see it going either way

I think Ike has legit power, but I wouldn’t be shocked if he dipped a bit below .500.

I don’t think Citi adjustments will make quite as much of a difference with him as it did for some others and I’m also not convinced he’s quite as good as he showed in the small sample last season. He did only SLG .440 in 2010…granted that was his rookie year, and I fully expect him to be better than that…but missing almost a whole season, having pitchers make some adjustments to him…I wouldn’t be surprised to see him have some slumps and rough patches that bring his numbers down a bit…though I think he’ll at least SLG better than the ZiPS projection

by LGNYM on Jan 5, 2012 11:59 AM EST up reply actions  

TRAID

every single one of them

One day, this team is going to kill me.

by fxcarden on Jan 5, 2012 12:19 PM EST reply actions  

Or we can do what Rubin says...

Traid the front office (and spend the 5M on some crappy players instead).

Oh pissing blimey there's jam coming out of the walls!

by TWilliAM on Jan 5, 2012 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

saving money?

I’d assume he’d have wanted to give himself more than the current FO was getting..

-Ceetar, the Optimistic Mets Fan

by Ceetar on Jan 5, 2012 1:32 PM EST up reply actions  

where does Rubin say that?

twitter? Just curious; I try not to follow the Mets beat writers b/c they annoy me.

by BurleighGrimes on Jan 5, 2012 5:31 PM EST up reply actions  

he said it in the lobby

One day, this team is going to kill me.

by fxcarden on Jan 5, 2012 6:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I object

to Reyes/etc being there, but especially Brad freaking Emaus (on the Mets projections page)

so I projected him to play 1-25 games and hit 50-54 HR while playing the worst defense imaginable at SS. take that.

-Ceetar, the Optimistic Mets Fan

by Ceetar on Jan 5, 2012 1:33 PM EST reply actions  

I think Wright will rebound - not to his 6 WAR days, but he'll be good.

Ike, I think will continue his explosion, just not at such an extreme pace as last year.
Tejada, I don’t think will have the smooth development everyone thinks he will.
Everyone else seems like a pretty safe bet to stay the course.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Jan 5, 2012 1:36 PM EST reply actions  

yeah

I agree on Tejada.

I think Bay could sneeze harder than he hit the ball last year, so I expect some small modest uptick there.

-Ceetar, the Optimistic Mets Fan

by Ceetar on Jan 5, 2012 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Bay

one more year of terrible-ness, and then we get to cut him loose (a la Ollie, etc.) and put any other person in his spot.

Of course, if he somehow plays well then I would TRAID him for ANY OTHER PLAYER.

by BurleighGrimes on Jan 5, 2012 5:32 PM EST reply actions  

I've noticed that a couple of the SB Nation baseball blogs

have a pre-season fan projection competition — any of us interested parties would get to project the main stats for the starting 8 + starting pitchers (and maybe a reliever or two…) and then after the season we’d compare who was closest to being correct. I’ve seem them do this at Over the Monster, and it seems really fun.

by BurleighGrimes on Jan 5, 2012 5:38 PM EST reply actions  

i'd give it a shot

although i fear my hopeless optimism will be the death of me

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Jan 7, 2012 11:49 PM EST up reply actions  

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