Spring Weather in Early January Applesauce: Dickey Writes About Kilimanjaro, Cyclones Alumni in the Majors, Posada to Retire

by Steve Schreiber on Jan 8, 2012 10:00 AM EST in Applesauce

For some reason it reached 60 degrees on Saturday. In January. It made me yearn for spring. We're almost there, everybody (well maybe not, but if you keep thinking that we're close to spring, maybe you can trick yourself into believing it!).

Meet the Mets & Around the Majors

R.A. Dickey is currently climbing Mount Kilimanjaro and he's also writing about his travels for the New York Times. Unbelievable. I was exhausted after walking on the treadmill at the gym yesterday. Meanwhile, Dickey's climbing mountains and writing for the Times at the same time. Also, for those of you into that sort of thing, his piece is rife with Hobbit references. Keep safe, RA and happy travels!

Seedlings to Stars put together a list of Brooklyn Cyclones alumni to play in the majors and lets just say it's not a pretty list. Hmm...I wonder what ever happened to Danny Garcia. Here's hoping Ike Davis and Lucas Duda bust out and prop that list up a bit.

Here's an aerial picture of the right field changes at Citi Field, via the WCBS 880 chopper. I foresee many home runs landing in that area (although the Mets are snakebitten, so maybe not).

The Angels and Howie Kendrick agreed to a four year extension, worth $33.5 million. Kendrick is coming off a career best 5.8 fWAR season but this seems to be a pretty friendly deal for the Angels.

It sounds like longtime Yankees catcher Jorge Posada is going to announce his retirement very soon. I shouldn't be surprised but the unwarranted "is he a Hall of Famer" talk has already started, likely due to his True Yankee™ status. I'll answer the question for you, HOF voters and writers: no. Over at Fangraphs, Jeff Zimmerman took a look at Bernie Williams' bid and it looks like he and Jorge are in the same boat.

Finally, Baseball Nation's Jason Brannon put together a pronunciation guide for sabermetricians. The last one sums it up pretty well.

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Just So I Know...

Which catchers from Posada’s era ARE Hall of Famers, if not Posada.

Don’t include Buster Posey and Mauer, who are much younger, or someone like Gary Carter who might have been finishing up when Posada played.

Piazza. Next?

by WT Economist on Jan 8, 2012 10:43 AM EST reply actions

If I remember, somebody looked at Pudge Rodriguez

and he seemed like a good choice. Beyond he and Piazza, I can’t think of who else would be worthy.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Jan 8, 2012 10:52 AM EST via mobile up reply actions

Sounds about right to me

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Jan 8, 2012 2:07 PM EST via Android app up reply actions

Carter's already in anyway, so discussing him is a moot point.

But like Steve said, just Pudge and Piazza. No one else from that era comes anywhere close.

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 8, 2012 12:28 PM EST up reply actions

Well At Least There Are Two

But that’s not a lot. So when people say Posada is not worthy, are they perhaps not giving enough credit to a very tough position?

BTW, back in 2005 I recall the Mad Dog dissing Piazza on WFAN. He said that since his hitting was not that great anymore, it no longer made up for his bad defense.

So I called and asked if he could come up with an NL catcher who was better. He couldn’t. There was no one in the league better than a bad, last legs Piazza.

by WT Economist on Jan 8, 2012 2:35 PM EST up reply actions

Even if posada was comparitively

One of the better catchers in recent times (dont necessarily agree, but I suppose an argument can be made based on his bat) , I don’t feel like hes goood enough to be more than a very fringe candidate. Theres no rule saying you have to have a certain number of catchers inducted for a given time frame. Id say the only one who’s really a legitimate hof candidate is piazza.

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Jan 8, 2012 3:54 PM EST via Android app up reply actions

Considering how few catchers have been elected, I'd say having 2 active future HOFers at one

qualifies as rare. There’s only been 16 inducted, and 4 of those were from the Negro Leagues (Josh Gibson, Buck Ewing, Biz Mackey, and Louis Santop). Plus, you have 2 of the weakest HOF cases in Rick Ferrell and Ray Schalk. If you include Piazza and Ivan Rodriguez, plus maybe Ted Simmons (YMMV), you’ve got still got less than 20 catchers worthy of induction. So I’d say that people calling Posada not worthy of being in the Hall of Fame is less about disrespecting the position, and more about how difficult it is for a catcher to have a HOF-worthy career.

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 8, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

I Hear That

Given that people openly talk about having two of today’s best, Mauer and Posey, moved to another position.

But when you talk about value and winning, and given that a run scoring rally is a chain reaction that can be stopped by a black hole in the lineup, doesn’t that make a plus (if not sensational) bat like Posada’s much more valuable if they are a catcher?

Think about what made the 1990s Yankees great. They had home grown plus bats at three tough positions — C Posada SS Jeter CF Williams. So it was easy to come up with plus bats at the corners and for DH to fill in around them, and create an awesome lineup.

by WT Economist on Jan 8, 2012 4:54 PM EST up reply actions

But the Hall of Fame is an achievement for a singular player's career, not for team accomplishments.

I don’t really care what the Yankees did while Posada was there. To me the is was Jorge Posada, on his own, a Hall of Fame caliber player? The numbers say no. He was very good but he wasn’t top echelon. It’s probably not egregious to discuss him as a possibility but there’s really no case for him to actually have a chance at getting into the Hall. Same with Bernie Williams, Andy Pettitte, etc. All fine players but HOF caliber.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Jan 8, 2012 5:11 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs

To me the *question is...

Oops

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Jan 8, 2012 5:12 PM EST up reply actions

but *not HOF caliber.

Damn, I suck today.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Jan 8, 2012 5:13 PM EST up reply actions

hell get some stupid statue in centerfield

cause its what the yankees do. and we’ll all listen as the masses complain over at wfan for his “AGGREGIOUS SNUB” “DA RINGZZZ MIKE DA RINGZZZZ!”

not a hall of famer. nice player, good player, not a hall of fame player

I hate Philadelphia so much.

by the caveman on Jan 8, 2012 9:02 PM EST up reply actions

I'm Considering His Accomplishments

He had a .374 OBP and 275 HRs playing catcher, and a similar OPS to Yogi Berra.

According to Baseball Reference.com Posada’s OPS+ was 120, vs. 125 for Berra. Johnny Bench was 126.

Of course Posada played in an era when others put up massive numbers. But those were steroid era numbers. This gets back to an earlier discussion – what about those who might not make the HOF because they didn’t use steroids? (Yes I know it’s possible he did too).

by WT Economist on Jan 8, 2012 9:10 PM EST up reply actions

If Posada had put up those #s in the 80's, he'd be a shoo-in.

But for his era, they’re less impressive. As for the steroids thing, I’d rather not sit around and speculate as to how players’ careers might have been different had they used steroids; it’s a can of worms I prefer not to open. Besides, it begins with the baseline assumption of who did and didn’t use.

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 8, 2012 9:20 PM EST up reply actions

Bench also has 71.3 rWAR to his name.

Pudge: 67.3
Berra: 61.9
Piazza: 59.1
Posada: 44.7

Now War isn’t great for catcher, but a 15+ win gap is too large not to be significant.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Jan 8, 2012 10:29 PM EST up reply actions

Well put

Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?

by KeithsMoustache on Jan 9, 2012 2:26 AM EST via Android app up reply actions

Wasn't Buck Ewing

a 19th century player, not a Negro Leaguer?

Ralph Kiner: You've gotta change the script, I don't like the script.
Gary Cohen: What's wrong with the script?
Ralph Kiner: Well the script should be the Mets win every day.

by StorkFan on Jan 9, 2012 9:16 PM EST up reply actions

Yes, you're right. My mistake.

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 9, 2012 10:46 PM EST up reply actions

Buck O'Neil, maybe?

by Curtis3331 on Jan 10, 2012 12:07 AM EST up reply actions

Yeah, that's probably who I was thinking of.

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 10, 2012 1:57 AM EST up reply actions

Sadly, O'Neil's not in the Hall, for some absurd reason. But he should be.

"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."

by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 10, 2012 1:57 AM EST up reply actions

Dickey's knuckball has the power to make teammates levatate

ESPN, Mike Francesa, NY Post, NY Daily News, Fox Sports = Propaganda

Feel free to add me on Twitter;
https://twitter.com/#!/BlueChill1123

by BlueChill on Jan 8, 2012 10:51 AM EST reply actions 1 recs

The Numbers Would Be Better in the 1980s But They're Pretty Good Now

Here is the sense I get. Consider Josh Thole vs. Jorge Posada.

Stats types are prepared to say a not so great bat like Thole can be a valuable starter if he plays catcher, because really good hitters who can play that position are rare.

But they are not prepared to say that Posada, a rare really good hitter who plays that position, deserves to be elevated to the HOF level based on his position.

In other words, more credit is being given for the position at the low end of the major leagues than at the highest end.

by WT Economist on Jan 8, 2012 9:44 PM EST reply actions

But he was bad defensively

Didn’t have a good arm, pitchers preferred his backups because he couldn’t square up a pitch. If you’re not a super elite bat for the position, like Piazza, you fan short.

The Thole comp makes Posada an all star player, which is true, but the HoF is for historic greatness. Whether or not they made roster construction easier is moot. It’s the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Value, and he doesn’t even make it based on value.

"Let them be stud muffins"
-Tom Seaver
Proud Mets, Jets, Knicks, Islanders fan.

by piazza62 on Jan 8, 2012 10:00 PM EST up reply actions