Time for the unrealistic optimism/Lying to ourselves to begin
Hey fellas! It's been a while.
After the denials and obvious lies about where payroll would be and how the Madoff scandal would not affect the day to day operations we saw that the Mets, who love to send e-mail blasts to keep fans informed of every move, keep showing up in the news due to leaked information regarding the the severity of their financial circumstances. From a pure baseball perspective though, looking at the product on the field from Terry Collins to the 25th man the elements are there to produce false hope yet again.
The good....
Potential day to day balance: In the infield anchored by cornermen Ike Davis and Dubs (for now) I see potential for monster production. I know we lost perhaps the best SS in the game but most teams need to give a focus to defense in the middle infield and I think the combo of Ruben Tejada and Daniel Murphy/Justin Turner will perform well enough defensively and Murphy can put them over the top offensively as a middle infield tandem. Overall I would call it slightly above average if everything breaks right.
The outfield: If the Lucas Duda of last year and the Jason Bay of September show up we can be as solid as anyone at the corner outfield positions. Andres Torres represents a defensive upgrade over Angel Pagan who as talented as he may be seemed to get in his own way at times. Should be good enough in a best case scenario.
Bullpen: I love this bullpen. This is where we excel I believe. I think were truly in a position to shorten the game to 6 innings and between Ramon Ramirez, Tim Byrdak, Manny Acosta, Bobby Parnell, Jon Rauch and Frank Francisco get the final nine outs consistently.
Starters: This can be good or bad yet potentially great as well. Johan Santana has not pitched in the majors since late in the 2010 season and if he makes the opening day start will have had about a year and a half on the shelf. Is that enough? Will it ever be enough? The injury type is scary and he may never be able to string together consistent starts or even make consecutive starts and handle the workload expected of him. If he is able to start 28 to 32 games next year and get his fast ball up to at least 89 mph I think he can savvy his way to 180 innings and an ERA around 3.25. Dickey will be I believe as solid a number 2 as you can expect. 200 innings plus, solid ERA and a guy that helps the starter behind him by screwing up the timing of opposing lineups. Jon Niese needs to take a step forward this year. We all see the potential but he needs to live up to it this year. The strong bullpen will help him as they will be able to pull him quicker and save games before they get out of control which seemed to happen a lot to him last year late in his starts. Mike Pelfrey has gone from last years number 1 to this years number 4. That alone will help as he will less often be matched up against the aces of the league. I really think the reduced margin for error that comes with being a number one affected Pelfrey negatively. I could see a solid bounce back on the point alone. Dillon Gee seemed to become a punching bag around here last year. He was inconsistent but there was some good in there for stretches. He may not be 22 or 23 years old be he still is young and if he shows confidence in all his pitches and stops nibbling so much can resemble the Gee from the first half of last year. Last year was his rookie year so coming back this year with the workload under his belt and after learning what worked and what didn't I believe he's a smart enough guy to figure it out. He should at least be a decent number 5.
The Bad....
Catcher: Thole has regressed as a hitter I believe. After a nice start to his career I believe the poor defense is starting to affect the offense and although he put together a few nice stretches last year this is the position most in need of an upgrade. Rob Johnson and Mike Nickeas do nothing for me.
The Ugly....
The financial picture may mean losing Dubs at the trading deadline. I would say thats probably a lock to happen especially if the team is way out of it early. We can only hope that this team is competitive early and able to produce enough revenue to prevent that.
Overall I have to say I feel good to know the season is right around the corner. I love to watch good or bad for better or worse and as the saying goes ya never know. Worse case scenario at least my Knicks and Giants are competitive!!!
This FanPost was contributed by a member of the community and was not subject to any vetting or approval process. It does not necessarily reflect the opinions, reasoning skills, or attention to grammar and usage rules held by the editors of this site.
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Blind Lying to one's self...
works every time.
Yogi on the 1969 NY Mets....." overwhelming underdogs "
Keep in mind that trading Wright voids his option for 2013,
so if he does get traded, it’s just a rental, which is why I think he doesn’t get traded. At least not this year.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 8, 2012 12:43 PM EST reply actions
Can we pick up his option,
and then trade him next off-season?
We could, but he'd have only the one year left, which limits his value.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 8, 2012 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
I believe that the only thing holding the Mets back from playoffs
is a bad starting rotation. Dickey should be a lock for 200 great innings, but Niese and Santana are injury questions, and after them who do we have? Mike Pelfrey? Dillon Gee? Chris Schwinden? That does not sound like a playoff rotation to me.
Bobby Baseball - The future of Amazin' Avenue.
You're also assuming the offense will be fine
When Tejada, Thole, Bay, Torres, and Pitcher’s spot could faceplant again. And that’s hoping Wright, Ike, Murphy, Duda are sure things.
"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell
Does it really matter?
The offense will be fine, but this is not the offense we are going to take into the postseason either way. Anything can happen but I don’t think the next Met champion will have an outfield anything like this.
"Let them be stud muffins"
-Tom Seaver
Proud Mets, Jets, Knicks, Islanders fan.
lol
that about the OF is an understatement. Hi, yes, i’ll take the upgrade please!
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
Even if we could move Duda over to left
keep Torres in center and let Nieuwenhis play left, that would be a nice makeshift outfield that would be fun to watch until better prospects are ready. Bay ruins that too.
"Let them be stud muffins"
-Tom Seaver
Proud Mets, Jets, Knicks, Islanders fan.
You're right.
Two leftfielders would be fun to watch.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Jan 9, 2012 2:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
And useful
While the left fielders fight and fumble over the ball, firstthirdbaseman Ike David has time to get to the right bag!
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf. "
– Tug McGraw when asked about his preference for grass or astroturf
by Terry_is_God on Jan 9, 2012 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
and the rotation hurts a nice pen
we havepicked up some nice pieces for the bullpen, but if we can get the IP out of our starters they will become very hittable by the end of the season. we aren’t worse than last season, but on paper other teams are better.
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
by Rickfansince76 on Jan 8, 2012 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
The way you designed your poll and the results say it all
Like most people, I chose 71-79 wins, but that’s rather a large window. All of these things you mention could go either way; I happen to be more pessimistic about some (if Santana produces 180 innings of 3.25 ERA work I will be stunned… elated but stunned) and a little more optimistic about others (I don’t think Thole’s getting worse, in fact I expect him to improve this year defensively and maybe offensively), but really, who knows?
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf. "
– Tug McGraw when asked about his preference for grass or astroturf
by Terry_is_God on Jan 8, 2012 7:04 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Your giving alot of confidence in that bullpen
Frsansico is a gas can. Think Fernado Rodney 2.0. Maybe moving to the NL east helps out or maybe not. Ramirez had a great yr last yr. Remeber this is the same guy Boston literally gave away because he was so bad. Again maybe he couldn’t handle the tough AL east and is a NL pitcher. But it’s like Pagan a few seasons ago. Had a break out year but no track record to sustain that production.
You're way off
The past three years, Francisco has had a 10.0 K/9 and a 3.3 K/BB. Compare that to Rodney’s 1.35 K/BB over the same time span, including a 7.9 BB/9 in 2011.
Excluding his sophomore campaign in Colorado, Ramirez has had at least a 136 ERA+ every year in his career. His bad half-season in Boston was due to a fluky spike in HRs allowed.
"Let them be stud muffins"
-Tom Seaver
Proud Mets, Jets, Knicks, Islanders fan.
by piazza62 on Jan 8, 2012 9:18 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I had Fransico on my FBB team last yr and watched and tracked every outing
He’s a head case. He can nail it down up 3 runs but when he has a 1 run lead it’s a different story. Or at least every game that I watched him pitch. Again maybe the weak NL benefits him. Ramirez I like I just don’t know if it was a career year or that is the norm for him. Plus Acosta, was last yr a “career yr” or can he sustain those numbers. Again like the rest of this team it’s the “If’s” with this team. All and all it should be MUCH better than last years pen.
Relievers are by nature "ifs"
Unless their name is Mariano Rivera, all you have to go by is recent performance. It’s nice to have a Proven Closer™, but some times you end up with Mark Davis, when Jeff Montgomery would have done just fine.
"Let them be stud muffins"
-Tom Seaver
Proud Mets, Jets, Knicks, Islanders fan.
by piazza62 on Jan 8, 2012 11:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Its unaminous
2012 World Series Champs
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
by astromets on Jan 9, 2012 12:52 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Half full vs. half empty
Right now, the Mets are generally considered as a laughingstock by most experts, expected to lose well over 90+ games.
And without looking closer, why wouldn´t you think that way (note, what follows is not my opinion):
Jose Reyes, a 6 WAR player has departed as a free agent.
Carlos Beltran, probably the team´s 2nd best hitter of 2011 also left in late July, shortly before the collapse of the 2011 Mets which went 78-84. Plus add in K-Rod, a truely proven CLOSER who won´t be there. Meanwhile, besides a solid replacement closer and a couple of setup relievers, plus the neutral Pagan for Torres swap, nothing has changed. Do the math and you probably end up at 68 wins instead of 78 – and with the Mets in sell-mode that probably means 65 wins, lots of fun for Adam Rubin & Co. painting the bleakest of pictures and the Wilpons and their large front office watching the games pretty much by themselves @ renovated Citi Field.
However, what these “experts” generally fail to see is that the Mets went 79-83 in 2010 without getting any sort of significant help from an injury riddled Carlos Beltran, rather pedestrian production from Jose Reyes for his standards that Ruben Tejada should come very close to providing himself in 2012, plus K-Rod being about as good as one would expect Frank Francisco to be in 2012.
As for the offense, I don´t think it´s outlandish to expect David Wright & Ike Davis to combine for 1.000+ AB again in 2012 instead of 500 or so AB that they had in 2011. And considering how well Davis hit in late 2010 and early 2011 until his injury struck, I don´t think it´s overly optimistic to expect Wright (with the fences moved in and the back in better condidtion) and Davis to average an .850 OPS between the two and combine for 50+ HR in 2012. The optimistic view would have Wright returning to his 2008 form with Davis´ last 3 months sample size (mid August 2010 to mid May 2011) .900+ OPS and the two combining for 60+ HR and an average OPS in the .900 range. The pessimistic view probably has Wright merely doing what he did in 2011 offensively and Davis reproducing close to his rookie season totals.
Again, if Davis & Wright play a lot more than they did in 2011 and produce according to realistic expectations, the loss of offense from losing Reyes & Beltran should already be compensated in large parts. Lucas Duda & Daniel Murphy are the other two offensive keys in 2012 and going forward. If they can repeat what they did in 2011 – only while playing more games, the Mets offense won´t be any worse than the offenses of other NL East teams. Even if Jason Bay doesn´t surprisingly return to pre-2010 form, Ruben Tejada & Josh Thole merely repeat their 2011 performance and Andres Torres only plays good defense but doesn´t rebound to 2010 levels. All in all, even without Reyes & Beltran, this offense should – realistically – be better overall than the one that helped get the 2010 Mets to 79 wins in spite of wasting thousands of ABs on the likes of Alex Cora, Rod Barajas, Jeff Franceour, Luis Castillo and others and not worse than the offense of the aging Phillies the somewhat challenged Braves, the up & coming Nationals and even the pimped up Marlins.
The Mets bullpen should also be better & mostly deeper than the 2011 and even 2010 versions.
What will ultimately decide whether this is a 75-win or 85-win team is the starting pitching. And unlike the quite underrated offense this is an area where you´ll need to be an optimist to expect a .500+ finish, especially compared to the generally stronger rotations of the 4 NL East rivals.
How much can Santana pitch and how good will he be ? Santana is the type of SP who figures to do well even with diminished stuff. However, even for that he´ll need to be ready to take the ball every 5th day. I don´t think it´s outlandish to expect him to at least replace Capuano´s 2011 production – but the big health question marks remain until proven otherwise.
RA Dickey is a fine # 2/3 starter now and probably for the next 25 years if he returns alright from his journey.
Jon Niese will have to prove he can pitch a full season of 30+ starts without breaking down. There is potential that as a 25-year-old LH, he´ll improve with age like good wine and perform closer to his peripherals than before. If he does, he´ll be an asset and quite possibly match up well with the Mark Buehrle´s and possibly even Cole Hamels of the world.
Mike Pelfrey is what he is. A solid inning gobbling # 4 starter who lacks a true out pitch. Maybe the improved defense behind him helps him come closer to his 2008 & 2010 totals than the uglier 2009 and 2011 lines. Maybe not.
And Dillon Gee seems like a good warrior who´ll get most out of his fringy stuff and perform adequately at the back-end of the rotation.
Jeremy Hefner and Chris Schwinden aren´t all that sexy as backup-options, but both have done well enough at AAA to at least fill in okay until possibly one or two of the “phenoms” are ready to help by late 2012.
Consideríng the strong competition in the NL East, the Mets probably can reasonably be expected to repeat their 2010 and 2011 performance and win in the upper 70s with this cast of players. With a little luck and especially a solid return from Santana or breakouts from Niese and / or Davis, this team could even sneak into WC contention and approach 85 wins – without having to be an unrealistic fool.
by Doob on Jan 9, 2012 1:00 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
this should be a fanpost
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
It all depends on Santana's health
and the Wilpons aren’t going to provide an alternative
If Santana can throw half those innings at any kind of positive effectiveness
I’ll be surprised.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Jan 9, 2012 9:06 AM EST reply actions
If Bay has a monster first half
is there any chance of him being traded if the Mets picked up say half of next year’s money?
Maybe one in a million.
"And that's why anybody who invested with Lenny Dykstra should really call that number. Lawyers are standing by."
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jan 9, 2012 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
So you're telling me there's a chance?

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Jan 9, 2012 8:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
we find tom terrific 2.0
in wheeler…miss wc by 1 game. champtions 2013. the phanatic dies. victorino cries. we continue to own hammels
I hate Philadelphia so much.
by the caveman on Jan 9, 2012 9:59 PM EST via Android app reply actions

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