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I love a good what if...this is one is particularly dystopian.

4 months ago Tiny Apodaca All Stars 28 comments 0 recs  | 

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If we never traded for Johan...

Livan Hernandez would have been our guy in 2008- and, he had a craptastic 2008. That would have been a suck fest. We wouldn’t have collapsed, though. The silver lining is that we would have gone in balls to the walls for Sabathia that next offseason, and frankly, I would rather have Sabathia than Santana. I don’t think, in such a situation, the Yankees would have outbid us for him. Remember, coming off of the mid 2000s, we were in the same exact situation as them- spending freely and expected to win. The JJ Putz deal not happening, possibly, that would’ve been nice. Wouldn’t have changed much in 2009, 2010, or 2011, in terms of wins and losses, but keeping all those players/prospects would put us in a better position now.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 10, 2012 2:47 PM EST reply actions  

Another thing is if they would have had a crappy '08

After the collapse in ’07, Omar would have likely been fired after the ’08 season.

by graves9 on Feb 10, 2012 3:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I'm 50-50a with that

The fact that after two back-to-back collapses in ’07 and ’08, he made it to 2010 makes me doubtful.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 10, 2012 5:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Yeah

How the hell did he make it to 2010? I lived it and I still can’t believe it

by Evan_S on Feb 10, 2012 7:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I still don't know how he wasn't fired 5 minutes after the whole Adam Rubin Lobby Press Conference fiasco.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Feb 10, 2012 8:07 PM EST up reply actions  

2008 should have been the end of it

2009 was a disaster, but one could argue that the massive amount of key players getting injured would have battered any team (and, we still weren’t in last place, after all that) saved him. If nobody was injured in 2009, we would have been right back in it, like we were in 2007 and 2008. So, that all saved his ass, really.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 10, 2012 9:19 PM EST up reply actions  

This

You couldnt be pissed at Omar and Jerry when the players get hurt, they got a pass because of it as much as I wanted them gone

ESPN, Mike Francesa, NY Post, NY Daily News, Fox Sports = Propaganda
Blue and Orange, Green and White, Red and Black

Twitter: @BlueChill1123

by BlueChill on Feb 11, 2012 9:53 AM EST up reply actions  

I think the Yankees would have outbid the Mets for C.C

They were desperate for a starter and were tossing around money like drunken sailors that offseason.They had one of their highest spending offseasons ever between C.C , Burnett and Tex.

by graves9 on Feb 10, 2012 3:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

The Mets were also desperate for pitching

Money, then, was no problem- we gave Ollie 3/$36, so…

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 10, 2012 7:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

But Ollie was the next Sandy Koufax

C.C. has never been as good as Koufax was at his peak.

by Evan_S on Feb 10, 2012 7:47 PM EST up reply actions  

One of these statements is true

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 10, 2012 9:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I disagree with the premise of the second part of this

If the Mets don’t trade for Sabathia, the Yanks get him. This idea that the Twins keep him instead is ridiculous. Santana was on the trade market for a reason, and the BoSox and Yanks were throwing the best packages at them. The only reason they picked Minaya’s worse offer was because they didn’t want to have to deal their Ace to the two teams they’d most likely meet in a short series. Regardless, if the Mets don’t step in, he still ends up getting dealt, most likely to the Yankees.

With the Yankees getting a great Santana, there’s virtually no way they get Sabathia the next year, and the Mets would have the money they would have allotted to Santana to throw at him. Frankly, the Mets may have even gotten him earlier; instead of the Brewers being able to make the trade for CC in 2008 (and subsequently beating out the Mets for the WC) the Mets might have thrown their Santana-lite package at him instead.

I agree that the managers wouldn’t be back or stick around as long, and that ridiculous extension Minaya signs probably doesn’t happen. I don’t want to extrapolate too far, but you can kiss Jason Bay goodbye right there. And FWIW, I kind of like the trading for Peavy scenario; leaving Petco and the NL for US Cellular in the AL was an awful turn for him, but I think he could have been right at home in Citifield.

"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell

by Rey-O on Feb 10, 2012 3:44 PM EST reply actions  

Butterfly effect

who knows what happens if we don’t get him but I doubt we get Livan Hernandez in 08 or AJ Burnett the following year, among other things. Seems like a silly what if to premise, considering Omar was crazy and somewhat unpredictable

2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!

by astromets on Feb 10, 2012 7:46 PM EST reply actions  

Omar made Livan his #1 target that offseason

We were on the cusp of signing him. The need wasn’t there anymore when the Twins gave him a buzz and asked for what we’d give them for Santana, but that was going to be our fate.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 10, 2012 9:21 PM EST up reply actions  

really?

don’t remember that, thankfully

2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!

by astromets on Feb 11, 2012 12:39 AM EST up reply actions  

I remember that too.

For most of the offseason, there was buzz about how we’re “only” going to end up with Livan Hernandez…and then the Santana derby heated up in January.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Feb 11, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

I'll give you the perfect butterfly effect

Duaner Sanchez doesnt get in that cab and orders in. Well that gives us a ring in 2006. Probably more funds to upgrade the team for 2007 and beyond. Not a sniff of Ollie Perez in orange and blue.

by TheKid08 on Feb 10, 2012 8:44 PM EST reply actions  

All things being what they are, maybe we get blown out 18-2 if Perez doesn't pitch Game 7

In September 2006, the playoffs, and 2007, Ollie was palatable, with flashes of being pretty good.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 10, 2012 9:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

it was re-signing him after 2008 that was stupid. They should’ve just taken the draft picks and ran, since he was miraculously a Type A free agent.

Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.

by Steve Schreiber on Feb 10, 2012 10:12 PM EST up reply actions  

He was one miracle catch from Endy Chavez away from being a goat

"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell

by Rey-O on Feb 11, 2012 11:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Not for nothing, but giving up three runs (the 1 he gave up, plus 2 more from that theoretical home run)

is far from goat territory. If he gave up that home run, and left the game trailing 3-1 after 6 innings pitched, he would have:

(A) Still surpassed everyone’s expectations, as that’s still a quality start.
(B) Still have done better than his Game 4 experience, where he gave up 5 earned runs in 5.2 innings pitched.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 11, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Eh, I know this isn't really the point

but the Santana trade didn’t sink the Mets, signing him to that contract was

by secret defense on Feb 11, 2012 5:49 PM EST reply actions  

Every long term contract is bad at the end

Sabathia, Prince, Albert, Soriano, they all aren’t going to be worth it the last few years. It’s part of the game we live in today. Only differece is other teams have money so 1 or 2 bad contracts don’t hamper 2 or 3 years of their franchise.

by TheKid08 on Feb 11, 2012 10:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Tell that to the Red Sox

who have an astronomical payroll but traded their starting shortstop to sign Cody Ross. And to the White Sox, Cubs, and Twins who all are horrible despite the amount of money they’ve spent over the last couple of years. Truth is, you sign enough big $ contracts and they all start to look bad whether or not they really are. Unless you’re the Yankees or have a top farm system (which the Red Sox, Cubs, Twins, and White Sox do not), bad contracts will fubar your franchise regardless of madoff.

"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand."
-Wes Westrum
"I'm a huge advocate of pitching"
-Tom Seaver

by piazza62 on Feb 11, 2012 10:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Technically wasn't the extension a prerequisite to a trade?

And they had like all of three days to get it done? I don’t think you can separate the trade from the extension, as one doesn’t exist without the other.

by MetsFanXXIII on Feb 13, 2012 6:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

He wouldn’t have agreed to be traded if he didn’t have an extension with whatever team it was that was going to be getting him in the trade.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 13, 2012 8:48 PM EST up reply actions  

the trade for Santana wasn't bad

our discussion sure would be different had the Mets clinched and not collapsed in part of Johan’s brilliant effort against Miami Barflins.

there’s always a risk to any long term contract in all sports

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Feb 12, 2012 11:22 AM EST reply actions  

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