Nationals Sign Edwin Jackson
Looks like they are going to have to deal away John Lannan as well now.
4 months ago
Rey-O
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Crap
That’s probably going to be a good signing. MLB Trade Rumors says it’s going to be a 1 year deal, somewhere betweend $8M-$12M. That’s not a ton of money, and on a one year deal, that’s giving you flexibility for down the road. Edwin Jackson makes a pretty good 4th starter to me.
Seeing as it’s a one year deal, Wasn’t there any chance the Mets could’ve been in on Jackson? Are the Nationals really that much rosier of a team to play for than the Mets right now? Adding Jackson could’ve been a huge boost to the rotation, and with the offense looking strong, who knows how far we’d go.
You always root for laundry. Of course, you'd like to have good players in that laundry as well.
'Are the Nationals really that much rosier of a team to play for than the Mets right now?'
I don’t think it matters. I think the Wilpon’s Mets are just that broke.
by MetsFan4Decades on Feb 2, 2012 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
Mets are paying Pelfrey and Rauch about 9.2 million
Nats will pay Jackson about 8-10 million
Good job Sandy! Well not really. Actually, shitty job for the most part Sandy this offseason (excluding Reyes).
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only BLUE WALLS.
The 2012 Mets: Fortune cookie says come back in 2015
Really disliked the Rauch signing at least at 3.5 million
Especially considering the deals Wheeler and Lidge got a month after the Mets signed Rauch. The Mets had already added two relievers that day. I didn’t get the rush to sign Rauch.
by graves9 on Feb 2, 2012 2:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah
That seems like a head-scratcher. The best move so far this offseason has been the Pagan for Ramirez/Torres trade. The Francisco deal was decent, the two year deal makes it seem likely he’s getting traded mid-season, so we’ll have to see what kind of fruit it bears. Other than that, not a lot of moves to rave about. Which is weird b/c we’re seeing a lot of 1 year deals that should be right up our Front Office’s wheelhouse. The 40 man roster has been tight, but that didn’t stop them from signing Ronny Cedeno (or Rauch for that matter).
You always root for laundry. Of course, you'd like to have good players in that laundry as well.
The reliever market crashed after that signing
Remember that signing was made after Matt Capps was signed for 4.5mm with a 6mm option, and Jonathon Broxton signed for $4mm. These agents are just trying to troll us.
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It did
This still feels like a market we could’ve really utilized to improve this year’s team. We made a lot of underwhelming moves after the Reyes exodus. And now there’s some pretty good talent (Jackson, Oswalt) that can be had for one year deals, and we seem to be out of the market on these guys. I personally don’t get it.
You always root for laundry. Of course, you'd like to have good players in that laundry as well.
Those underwhelming moves were more than I expected
The Mets are building a budget team, they weren’t going to alott too much money to any one player.
"I only wanted a few things out of life -- a wife, children, to play baseball and to hunt deer." - Turk Wendell
1 year/$8M
Is too much? Sounds reasonable enough to me. Even with the team’s finances as it is, that signing could go a long way to a competitive summer which would equal more ticket sales.
You always root for laundry. Of course, you'd like to have good players in that laundry as well.
Eh
When the Mets were making their relief signings, Jackson was looking for like 5/70. There is an argument they should have waited longer on the bullpen moves, but there is some risk there.
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by Jeffrey Paternostro on Feb 2, 2012 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Waiting is a risk
But I guess the question really is did the moves that were made circumvent the risk factor? Did we really make out better for not waiting I guess is what I’m saying.
You always root for laundry. Of course, you'd like to have good players in that laundry as well.
Was there?
The DBacks signed Takashi Saito for 1.75 million a week after Rauch signed. And even if Sandy thought there might be risks, why make Rauch, a very mediocre reliever, such a huge priority?
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only BLUE WALLS.
The 2012 Mets: Fortune cookie says come back in 2015
it's really hard to figure ot what will constitute a good bullpen
but maybe it is just something he sucks at, he did sign DJ Carrasco to two years last offseason
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
Well, Carrasco was a league average reliever from 08-10
and the Mets were only paying him $1 million per season, so that wasn’t an absolutely terrible deal.
The Rauch signing was bad from the start, and it’s made worse by the fact that a guy like Coffey will probably make a 3rd of what Rauch is making.
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only BLUE WALLS.
The 2012 Mets: Fortune cookie says come back in 2015
it's not like he had a history of being all that good
yeah, I forgot how little he makes, but 2 years was never needed
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
by astromets on Feb 3, 2012 2:00 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
There's nothing wrong with a *cheap* 2-year deal
Multi-year deals are not inherently bad unless they’re expensive. If Reyes would have taken a 50-year, $1M-per-year deal, I don’t think Sandy would have said, “No way, that’s too many years!”
The thing everybody forgets is that
Carrasco still had another season of arbitration eligibility (2012), since he was non-tendered by Arizona after 2010 and had only accrued 4+ years of service time at that point. The gamble that Sandy took there was to just go ahead and guarantee Carrasco the second year and in the event that he pitched well in 2011, they wouldn’t have to give him a raise in 2012 through arbitration.Looking at it that way, it actually was sort of a savvy move. Unfortunately, Carrasco tanked in 2011, making the deal look bad in the end. But it’s not like he’s making ridiculous money. 1 year at $1.25 million isn’t all that much, even for this team.
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by Steve Schreiber on Feb 3, 2012 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
True
I think Syler still has a point though. I wonder if the front office just assumed guys like Jackson would be out of their price range and never paid to much attention. There are other factors (like where Jackson himself wanted to pitch), but you’d think a team with little money would wait to see which free agents would overplay their hands and have to sign for cheap. I don’t know if they could have done that with Pelfrey though, since they had to make the decision to tender him earlier. But it would have been nice to have the Rauch money in reserve for late signings.
by EricAColucci on Feb 2, 2012 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
thank you for that Jeffrey
besides Edwin Jackson is NOT as good as everyone thinks he is. he’s basically (As someone here pointed out once, forgive me for forgetting whom it was) the ultimate upside of Pelfrey.
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
Damn. Wish we had made this deal.
The Nationals could be annoyingly decent this year. You know what, Nationals? I’m not in the mood. Knock it off; suck more.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf. "
– Tug McGraw when asked about his preference for grass or astroturf
You know when the last time Washington had a team that won more than 87 games?
1933. They could be good, but they weren’t even as good as the Mets last year (by pythagorean record), and maybe some things just aren’t meant to be. If there’s one city that I can honestly say deserves to at least have a semblance of baseball success, it’s DC.
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Holy cow!
I take it back. Let’s go Nats?
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf. "
– Tug McGraw when asked about his preference for grass or astroturf
by Terry_is_God on Feb 2, 2012 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
Was that the year they had a rotation of four knuckleball pitchers?
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 3, 2012 10:18 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
This is going to be my go-to saying this season.
You know what, _? I am not in the mood.
I would take a John Lannan
just wouldn’t give up much for him
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
Does this signing mean they'll use Zimmermann as their 4th starter?
I don’t know which is more frustrating; that the Nats have such a good rotation or that the media insists that Jackson and Gonzalez are better than Zimmermann.
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Ah, that's right
I forgot Gio Gonzalez
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 2, 2012 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
Zimmermann is underrated
And slotted as your 4th starter. If Strasburg is healthy they can be a sleeper team.
Another nail
in our NL East 5th place coffin.
On the bright side, by the time we’re able to contend again, one or two teams may be struggling once more.
"..."
by Thaddeus Ballpheasant on Feb 2, 2012 6:30 PM EST reply actions
Hey, they have a decent starting rotation, but their bullpen is still mostly crappy, so...
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 2, 2012 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know about that.
Drew Storen put up a 3.32 FIP last year and Tyler Clippard is one of the best setup men in the game. Then they also added Brad Lidge to that. If he’s healthy, that’s a formidable back of the bullpen.
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by Steve Schreiber on Feb 2, 2012 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
Storen wasn't all that good
< 1.0 WAR from your closer is meh. Clippard was their only bullpen piece worth 1.0+. Lidge is addition by subtraction, eliminating a guy like Sean Burnett, but I don’t expect Lidge to be even 50% of his prime self anymore cause of age and injury.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 3, 2012 3:34 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don't think WAR for relievers is very useful.
It was only his second season, so there’s a pretty good chance he improves. He also pitched 75 innings, which is pretty good for a reliever. I think the last one who pitched 75 innings for the Mets is Aaron Heilman in 08. I think he’d be the best RP on the Mets this season.
Astro Traveler
Yeah, this.
I just really don’t like the using fWAR for relievers at all. I think rWAR captures the impact of a reliever a little bit better but it’s still not perfect. Storen’s 1.8 rWAR sounds closer to what he should be…the guy was awesome in 2011 and he’s only going to get better. He had a 3.7 K/BB ratio last year and opponents hit .202/.262/.337 against him. He’d easily be the best reliever on the Mets.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
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by Steve Schreiber on Feb 3, 2012 8:36 AM EST up reply actions
i was surpised to see that perpetual pedro didn't get there
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Feb 3, 2012 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
His career high is 64.
Being a LOOGY, that really cuts down on his innings.
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by BobbyV_Incognito on Feb 3, 2012 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
true, 64 is still pretty ridiculous for a LOOGY
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Feb 3, 2012 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
I was using it comparativley, to other relief pitchers
Comparing starters is apples to oranges, because of the inning load, of course.
Storen was worth 0.9 from that closer spot. Parnell gave us 0.6. Nick Massett gave the Reds 0.6. Josh Outman gave the A’s 0.8. Joe Smith gave the Indians 1.2. A random sampling of middle relief/set-up guys, but that’s not exactly flattering company.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 3, 2012 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
The Nats are going all out for 3rd place.
I like the move though. Little risk, easy improvement that doesn’t block any prospects. They can always deal him or take the draft pick at the end of the season too.
This.
As much noise as the Fish and Nats made this season, they’re still far behind the Braves for 2nd place, and there are possibly teams than the Braves for the WC slots (Giants, D-Backs, and maybe Dodgers in the west, Brewers, Cards, and Reds in the central). Considering reasonable health among all clubs, the Nationals are closer to the mets than they are to the braves/phils.
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and the Braves are still far behind the Mets for 1st place
2012 You can start making fun of the last place phillies again
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
And if they have a competitive team
Fans will come and they will make money, allowing them to be in on any FA next year.
Jackson vs Pelfrey
In general, Edwin Jackson isn´t a much better pitcher than Mike Pelfrey. Their FIPs, OPS against, IP and ERAs are quite similar to almost identical over the past 4 years – though Jackson was a bit better than Pelfrey in 2011. Is Jackson worth 5 million $ more than Pelfrey ? I doubt it.
And as for the league / park effects supposedly making it tougher for Jackson , he generally did quite alright with the White Sox in half of 2010 and 2011 but got hit a lot harder with TB, DET and STL. Meanwhile, over 20 % of Pelfrey´s starts have come against the Phillies & Yankees, plus some other very respectable offenses.
Also, the Mets rather sluggish Infield defense hasn´t helped all that much.
With Davis back at 1b and Tejada taking over at SS, he should benefit a bit more.
That said, barring the development of a strong changeup or breaking pitch, Pelf is what he is, a solid inning gobbling # 4 starter who essentially is what Steve Trachsel used to be here a few years ago.
Yet, I´m far more worried about Strasburg, Gonzalez or Zimmerman than Jackson…
I'm not a Jackson fan
but he’s been worth over 3.5 fWAR each of the last three years (3.6, 3.8, 3.8 respectively). Pelfrey has never been worth that even in his best year (topped out at 3.0). It’s because Jackson strikes out more than a batter more per 9 then Pelfrey.
But yes, he’s probably their #4 behind Stasburg, Gio, and Zimmermann.
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