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Around SBN: Veterans Share Their Favorite Sports Memories

Are the Mets Truly Saber? Part One

Sandyball.


We take it almost for granted that the new regime in New York is a sabermetric one. By that, we mean that they search for undervalued assets through the vigorous study of baseball scouting and statistics. After all, Sandy Alderson hired Billy Beane -- or was it Brad Pitt. In any case, like sabermetrics pushes us to question our assumptions about the game of baseball, it should also push us to question this current assumption about the front office.

Is the current Mets organization truly a "saber" organization?

How would we figure this out? A definition must come first, but it's the hardest part. Calling an organization 'saber' suggests that they use statistics to make decision, but that's not the only part. After all, even the most old-school organizations use statistics -- maybe RBI or wins, but still statistics. What we are looking for are signs that this organization is thinking differently about how to run a baseball team. We want to see that they are looking for undervalued assets and searching for the right structures to put in place for sustained success.

In order to determine if the team is saber or not, we'll have analyze the moves that the team has made at the very least. These moves could be anything from free agent signings, to trade acquisitions, to waiver claims -- but they could also include structural and organizational change. Industry opinions are useful, in that they let us know what the rest of baseball thinks about current leadership. Any sort of indication that the team is pushing the analysis and using research to identify undervalued assets would seem to 'prove' their saber-ness.

We can try to look at each of these phases of the game, but the organization is still a bit of a black box -- as well it should be. After all, they have to try and beat every other organization out there and therefore don't gain much by broadcasting their methods. And we might discover that labeling the Mets is a useless exercise, too.

But let's give it a shot anyway.

Star-divide

In the first part, we'll look at the perception of the team, and any structural change the team might have made that would qualify as 'saber.' In the second and final part, we'll look at the actual moves that the team made and see what we can learn.

Bradley Woodrum recently grouped the organizations in baseball. Using Casey Kotchman's possibly undervalued skill set and the teams he played for as a jump-off point, he issued some massive caveats and attempted to suss out which organizations are more analytical and which are more old school. The Mets placed in the "Highly Analytical" tier.

When asked why, the DRaysBay and FanGraphs author was apologetic, but his response was also interesting:

Well, first of all, I regret ranking the organizations. Ranking them makes me look knowledgeable or certain or intelligent -- none of those things really applies. The rankings were merely me putting my perceptions out there and seeing what others thought -- or, rather, that's what I meant them to be.

My Mets impression sources largely from Sandy Alderson and the fact that their moves in -- at least -- the recent year have seemed to be (if nothing else) not stupid. Being that they are in a really tough position (what with being terrible and all), it is hard to say exactly what their strategy is or how successful they are at it (in 2007, when the Devil Rays rolled out the worst bullpen in recorded human history, they seemed confused, crazy, and stupid; but now we can see their master plan -- and their pattern of bullpen construction -- so it looks more reasonable).

In other words, I think it is too early to say the Mets are not saber, especially given the fact that Alderson is there.

So, this ranking came from the standpoint of outside opinion. The Mets are certainly considered a saber team. There are the "Moneyball Mets" jokes -- some approving, some biting -- and there will forever be the link between Sandy Alderson and the origin of sabermetrics.

This can make us lean 'saber,' but if there's one thing we learned from Jonah Keri's 'Extra 2%, it was that the 'new Moneyball' means finding extra value wherever you can. It means looking forward as an organization. It could mean folding a less-than-useful minor league team with poor facilities. It could mean hiring consultants to streamline budgeting processes. It could mean hiring a hitting coach that preaches patience and selectivity.

It could mean changing the way things are done on the minor league level. Toby Hyde, the proprietor of MetsMinorLeagueBlog.com, pointed out that the team has made some incremental changes throughout their farm system:
The Mets clearly became more interested in teaching plate discipline at the A-ball level in 2011. Alongside basic mechanic adjustments and tweaks hitting Coach Benny DiStefano emphasized approach with his young hitters.

His emphasis on selectivity shows up in the numbers. In 2011, the Gnats drew the most walks (453) by any Mets team in the SAL in the last seven years, finishing in the top half in the League (7th out of 14 teams) for the first time in that span. Obviously, the composition of the team matters, but it's a pretty robust result. In the period from 2005 from 2009, the five years in which the South Atlantic League played with 16 years, the Mets affiliate in Hagerstown or Savannah finished dead last in the league in walks drawn twice, 12th, 14th and ninth. In 2010, the team finished 11th of 14 teams.

This increase in plate discipline is reflected elsewhere in the system. In 2010, under DiStefano, the Brooklyn Cyclones finished 11th of the 14 teams in the New York-Penn League in walks (227). In 2011, second with 280.

Maybe I'm making too much of a one year variation in approach for one of the Mets' farm teams, but I don't think so. Rather, it seems that there was a distinct change in teaching, which was reflected in the Sand Gnats.
Sounds like the team identified a way to get more out of the resources already in hand -- very saber.

Zoom out, and you'll see that the perception of the Mets as a saber organization begins to fit with the reality. Even something as simple as having a GM self-deprecate on twitter (or even a PR department willing to fight rumors on twitter) seems to describe a team that continues to look at best practices and continues to search for an edge in any department.

Once we look at their actual player acquisitions on Thursday, we might really get a sense that the Mets have earned their title.
Poll
Are the Mets Saber?
Yes
140 votes
No
33 votes
Doesn't matter until the results come.
127 votes

300 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 39 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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One thing I always wondered...

why is Sandy considered saber, because he seemed to hire Beane before Beane met Brand and started the saber revolution?

Husker/Giants/Mets fan living behind enemy lines.
First BBVer to get Noted

by CCE718 on Feb 21, 2012 10:28 AM EST reply actions  

Oh boy

Read the book – quite a bit more accurate than the movie.

"RBI’s does measure something – Wins."
-Bayonne Mets Fan on MMO

by Dandy Salderson on Feb 21, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Figured as much

And will get to it at some point, but not on my high priority list given the hundreds of pages of research I go through in a week.

Husker/Giants/Mets fan living behind enemy lines.
First BBVer to get Noted

by CCE718 on Feb 21, 2012 11:11 AM EST up reply actions  

It is a light read

Could provide a nice break from the heavy reading. I read some white papers and prospectus’s for work – Moneyball has shit sized chapters, meaning you can keep it in your bathroom and read a chapter a dump for a few weeks and be done with it.

Too much?

"RBI’s does measure something – Wins."
-Bayonne Mets Fan on MMO

by Dandy Salderson on Feb 21, 2012 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Fair enough

Thanks for the advice.

Husker/Giants/Mets fan living behind enemy lines.
First BBVer to get Noted

by CCE718 on Feb 21, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Brand, lol

Who wants to be the spoiler?

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 21, 2012 2:35 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I don't doubt that the Mets are stressing plate discipline in the low minors.

From everything I read including Moneyball, Sandy was really hardcore about at least trying to get a kid to take a walk. I wish I had the Moneyball paragraph on it but I think he’d essentially follow the MiLB boxscores and get on his coaches on a weekly basis if the walks weren’t coming.

by FrancoTAU on Feb 21, 2012 10:58 AM EST reply actions  

I'd also throw out Brooklyn's spike in walks this year as proof of a new coaching strategy.

As the increased walks seem more due to drafting patient hitters with their 2011 later round picks.

by FrancoTAU on Feb 21, 2012 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

How did Jeff Wilpon get the two sided light saber?

"RBI’s does measure something – Wins."
-Bayonne Mets Fan on MMO

by Dandy Salderson on Feb 21, 2012 11:52 AM EST up reply actions  

He must've stolen it from the vault

Going unopposed, you know, with credential-revoking powers and all. It’s only a matter of time before he goes down – Depo was clearly aiming for the purse.

RIP Gary Edmund Carter (1954 - 2012)

by sj10689 on Feb 21, 2012 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

But seriously, though

had Reese Havens been drafted 2 years later by the Mets (assuming of course he was drafted at the same age), I think the outcome would’ve been much better. He’s 25, and has not yet dominated AA-ball. Of all the players still in the system that have suffered under the old regime, I think he is the most maligned, given the top billing and all.

I know he was hurt/injured many times, but I still couldn’t help wondering what if he was brought up under the new system…

RIP Gary Edmund Carter (1954 - 2012)

by sj10689 on Feb 21, 2012 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Terry Collins sure isn't

He wants the team to lead the league in sac bunts this year.

by graves9 on Feb 21, 2012 11:53 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

I don't get how Sandy can hear this drivel and say nothing

I get not wanting to interfere….but he cannot just sit back and let Terry be such a freaking moron.

There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only BLUE WALLS.

The 2012 Mets: Fortune cookie says come back in 2015

by Syler on Feb 21, 2012 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Terry gets a mulligan for the 2011 season

But time will tell if he has learned anything during the offseason. If there should be a change, then we know Sandy got to him. But I’m betting 70:30 against that, meeting or not. If there is any change, it’ll probably be a bit less than subtle.

RIP Gary Edmund Carter (1954 - 2012)

by sj10689 on Feb 21, 2012 12:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Terry bunted like a mad man last April

Then he cooled down with all the bunting for months and then the last month of the season he went bunt crazy again, I have no isuue looking for the pitchers to improve on their bunting because they were awful last year, but having everyone on the team bunt is dumb.

by graves9 on Feb 21, 2012 12:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

That is a little harsh

I agree that having position players sac bunt generally is a bad idea, but I think overall, Terry has done a good job with the team.

The MetsCast: Dedicated to the New York Mets and the community of fans that supports them.

by Donal on Feb 21, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Terry is an average manager

Which is definitely an upgrade over the last two dopes that managed the team.

by graves9 on Feb 21, 2012 2:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Eh

Randolph still has his division title

RIP #8 Gary Carter April 8, 1954 – February 16, 2012

Twitter: @BlueChill1123

by BlueChill on Feb 21, 2012 6:52 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

Syler are you still interested in the Sabermetrics! Fantasy League?

I have an opening if you want it.

Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place

by Ogre39666 on Feb 21, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Not only lead the league, but lead the league by a lot

From Adam Rubin’s rundown of Terry’s press conference this morning:

The focus in spring training will be on better execution, such as a leading the league in sacrifice bunting by 10 rather than simply being even with the league leaders.

by Bieser's Balk on Feb 21, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I heard that TC press conference live.

I came away with the impression that he was saying we have to get better at it. Meaning if the situation calls for a sac bunt as in a pitcher’s at bat, he expects said pitcher to get that bunt down 100% of the time. As we all saw last year, just about no one on that pitching staff could get a bunt down.

I didn’t get the impression TC wanted to lead the league in sac bunts. Just that he wanted the execution of the sac bunt when called for to be successful. Goes without saying we shouldn’t be looking at position players looking to sac bunt more often than not.

by MetsFan4Decades on Feb 21, 2012 12:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm afraid

for how the D.J. Carrasco evaluation will go…

You always root for laundry. Of course, you'd like to have good players in that laundry as well.

by MetsCity on Feb 21, 2012 12:01 PM EST reply actions  

So far, I vote no

There’s only a single full season and half an off-season to judge, though, is it’s likely to change.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI

AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 21, 2012 2:37 PM EST reply actions  

this

only thing more overated and soft than osi umenyora is the 2011 eagles
Iman Shumpert is a first ballot hall of famer
a point guard within a point guard within a taco bell within a kfc, its Linception

by metseaglesknicks on Feb 21, 2012 4:29 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

I laughed, I cried... it moved me

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf. "

– Tug McGraw when asked about his preference for grass or astroturf

by Terry_is_God on Feb 21, 2012 4:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Now I know

it’s baseball season.

Ralph Kiner: You've gotta change the script, I don't like the script.
Gary Cohen: What's wrong with the script?
Ralph Kiner: Well the script should be the Mets win every day.

by StorkFan on Feb 21, 2012 9:02 PM EST up reply actions  

And he's back!

Fxcarden’s rants Season 2.
Mr. Twitterson is brilliant.

by MetsFan4Decades on Feb 21, 2012 10:43 PM EST up reply actions  

great article

I remember in the book they mentioned if you didn’t average a certain amount of walks you could t win minor leaguer of t he year

only thing more overated and soft than osi umenyora is the 2011 eagles
Iman Shumpert is a first ballot hall of famer
a point guard within a point guard within a taco bell within a kfc, its Linception

by metseaglesknicks on Feb 21, 2012 4:30 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions  

Weird way of looking at it. They're more 'Saber' than they ever have been, so I voted yes

But True Saber™? What? All I know is, A.I.D.A.: Alderson Isn’t Dumb, Assholes.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf. "

– Tug McGraw when asked about his preference for grass or astroturf

by Terry_is_God on Feb 21, 2012 4:38 PM EST reply actions  

do we want to be sober when we watch the Mets?

"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"

by feslenraster on Feb 23, 2012 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

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