Are the Mets Truly Saber? Part One
We take it almost for granted that the new regime in New York is a sabermetric one. By that, we mean that they search for undervalued assets through the vigorous study of baseball scouting and statistics. After all, Sandy Alderson hired Billy Beane -- or was it Brad Pitt. In any case, like sabermetrics pushes us to question our assumptions about the game of baseball, it should also push us to question this current assumption about the front office.
Is the current Mets organization truly a "saber" organization?
How would we figure this out? A definition must come first, but it's the hardest part. Calling an organization 'saber' suggests that they use statistics to make decision, but that's not the only part. After all, even the most old-school organizations use statistics -- maybe RBI or wins, but still statistics. What we are looking for are signs that this organization is thinking differently about how to run a baseball team. We want to see that they are looking for undervalued assets and searching for the right structures to put in place for sustained success.
In order to determine if the team is saber or not, we'll have analyze the moves that the team has made at the very least. These moves could be anything from free agent signings, to trade acquisitions, to waiver claims -- but they could also include structural and organizational change. Industry opinions are useful, in that they let us know what the rest of baseball thinks about current leadership. Any sort of indication that the team is pushing the analysis and using research to identify undervalued assets would seem to 'prove' their saber-ness.
We can try to look at each of these phases of the game, but the organization is still a bit of a black box -- as well it should be. After all, they have to try and beat every other organization out there and therefore don't gain much by broadcasting their methods. And we might discover that labeling the Mets is a useless exercise, too.
But let's give it a shot anyway.
In the first part, we'll look at the perception of the team, and any structural change the team might have made that would qualify as 'saber.' In the second and final part, we'll look at the actual moves that the team made and see what we can learn.
Bradley Woodrum recently grouped the organizations in baseball. Using Casey Kotchman's possibly undervalued skill set and the teams he played for as a jump-off point, he issued some massive caveats and attempted to suss out which organizations are more analytical and which are more old school. The Mets placed in the "Highly Analytical" tier.
When asked why, the DRaysBay and FanGraphs author was apologetic, but his response was also interesting:
Well, first of all, I regret ranking the organizations. Ranking them makes me look knowledgeable or certain or intelligent -- none of those things really applies. The rankings were merely me putting my perceptions out there and seeing what others thought -- or, rather, that's what I meant them to be.
My Mets impression sources largely from Sandy Alderson and the fact that their moves in -- at least -- the recent year have seemed to be (if nothing else) not stupid. Being that they are in a really tough position (what with being terrible and all), it is hard to say exactly what their strategy is or how successful they are at it (in 2007, when the Devil Rays rolled out the worst bullpen in recorded human history, they seemed confused, crazy, and stupid; but now we can see their master plan -- and their pattern of bullpen construction -- so it looks more reasonable).
In other words, I think it is too early to say the Mets are not saber, especially given the fact that Alderson is there.
The Mets clearly became more interested in teaching plate discipline at the A-ball level in 2011. Alongside basic mechanic adjustments and tweaks hitting Coach Benny DiStefano emphasized approach with his young hitters.His emphasis on selectivity shows up in the numbers. In 2011, the Gnats drew the most walks (453) by any Mets team in the SAL in the last seven years, finishing in the top half in the League (7th out of 14 teams) for the first time in that span. Obviously, the composition of the team matters, but it's a pretty robust result. In the period from 2005 from 2009, the five years in which the South Atlantic League played with 16 years, the Mets affiliate in Hagerstown or Savannah finished dead last in the league in walks drawn twice, 12th, 14th and ninth. In 2010, the team finished 11th of 14 teams.This increase in plate discipline is reflected elsewhere in the system. In 2010, under DiStefano, the Brooklyn Cyclones finished 11th of the 14 teams in the New York-Penn League in walks (227). In 2011, second with 280.Maybe I'm making too much of a one year variation in approach for one of the Mets' farm teams, but I don't think so. Rather, it seems that there was a distinct change in teaching, which was reflected in the Sand Gnats.
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Every team is now Saber
Anti-Saber is the new Saber.
"RBI’s does measure something – Wins."
-Bayonne Mets Fan on MMO
by Dandy Salderson on Feb 21, 2012 10:21 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
One thing I always wondered...
why is Sandy considered saber, because he seemed to hire Beane before Beane met Brand and started the saber revolution?
Husker/Giants/Mets fan living behind enemy lines.
First BBVer to get Noted
Oh boy
Read the book – quite a bit more accurate than the movie.
"RBI’s does measure something – Wins."
-Bayonne Mets Fan on MMO
by Dandy Salderson on Feb 21, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
Figured as much
And will get to it at some point, but not on my high priority list given the hundreds of pages of research I go through in a week.
Husker/Giants/Mets fan living behind enemy lines.
First BBVer to get Noted
It is a light read
Could provide a nice break from the heavy reading. I read some white papers and prospectus’s for work – Moneyball has shit sized chapters, meaning you can keep it in your bathroom and read a chapter a dump for a few weeks and be done with it.
Too much?
"RBI’s does measure something – Wins."
-Bayonne Mets Fan on MMO
by Dandy Salderson on Feb 21, 2012 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
Fair enough
Thanks for the advice.
Husker/Giants/Mets fan living behind enemy lines.
First BBVer to get Noted
Brand, lol
Who wants to be the spoiler?
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 21, 2012 2:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't doubt that the Mets are stressing plate discipline in the low minors.
From everything I read including Moneyball, Sandy was really hardcore about at least trying to get a kid to take a walk. I wish I had the Moneyball paragraph on it but I think he’d essentially follow the MiLB boxscores and get on his coaches on a weekly basis if the walks weren’t coming.
I'd also throw out Brooklyn's spike in walks this year as proof of a new coaching strategy.
As the increased walks seem more due to drafting patient hitters with their 2011 later round picks.
Additional proof that the Mets have become (more) saber
Sure beats the hell out of archaic weaponry.
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RIP Gary Edmund Carter (1954 - 2012)
by sj10689 on Feb 21, 2012 11:45 AM EST reply actions 8 recs
How did Jeff Wilpon get the two sided light saber?
"RBI’s does measure something – Wins."
-Bayonne Mets Fan on MMO
by Dandy Salderson on Feb 21, 2012 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
He must've stolen it from the vault
Going unopposed, you know, with credential-revoking powers and all. It’s only a matter of time before he goes down – Depo was clearly aiming for the purse.
RIP Gary Edmund Carter (1954 - 2012)
But seriously, though
had Reese Havens been drafted 2 years later by the Mets (assuming of course he was drafted at the same age), I think the outcome would’ve been much better. He’s 25, and has not yet dominated AA-ball. Of all the players still in the system that have suffered under the old regime, I think he is the most maligned, given the top billing and all.
I know he was hurt/injured many times, but I still couldn’t help wondering what if he was brought up under the new system…
RIP Gary Edmund Carter (1954 - 2012)
Terry Collins sure isn't
He wants the team to lead the league in sac bunts this year.
by graves9 on Feb 21, 2012 11:53 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I don't get how Sandy can hear this drivel and say nothing
I get not wanting to interfere….but he cannot just sit back and let Terry be such a freaking moron.
There is no hope.... there is no future....there is only BLUE WALLS.
The 2012 Mets: Fortune cookie says come back in 2015
Terry gets a mulligan for the 2011 season
But time will tell if he has learned anything during the offseason. If there should be a change, then we know Sandy got to him. But I’m betting 70:30 against that, meeting or not. If there is any change, it’ll probably be a bit less than subtle.
RIP Gary Edmund Carter (1954 - 2012)
Terry bunted like a mad man last April
Then he cooled down with all the bunting for months and then the last month of the season he went bunt crazy again, I have no isuue looking for the pitchers to improve on their bunting because they were awful last year, but having everyone on the team bunt is dumb.
by graves9 on Feb 21, 2012 12:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
That is a little harsh
I agree that having position players sac bunt generally is a bad idea, but I think overall, Terry has done a good job with the team.
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I think Terry is an average manager
Which is definitely an upgrade over the last two dopes that managed the team.
by graves9 on Feb 21, 2012 2:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Syler are you still interested in the Sabermetrics! Fantasy League?
I have an opening if you want it.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
2012 Amazin' Avenue Offseason Plan: 2nd place
Not only lead the league, but lead the league by a lot
From Adam Rubin’s rundown of Terry’s press conference this morning:
The focus in spring training will be on better execution, such as a leading the league in sacrifice bunting by 10 rather than simply being even with the league leaders.
by Bieser's Balk on Feb 21, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
I heard that TC press conference live.
I came away with the impression that he was saying we have to get better at it. Meaning if the situation calls for a sac bunt as in a pitcher’s at bat, he expects said pitcher to get that bunt down 100% of the time. As we all saw last year, just about no one on that pitching staff could get a bunt down.
I didn’t get the impression TC wanted to lead the league in sac bunts. Just that he wanted the execution of the sac bunt when called for to be successful. Goes without saying we shouldn’t be looking at position players looking to sac bunt more often than not.
by MetsFan4Decades on Feb 21, 2012 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't hear it, so I'll defer to you
Hope you’re right
by Bieser's Balk on Feb 21, 2012 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
I'm afraid
for how the D.J. Carrasco evaluation will go…
You always root for laundry. Of course, you'd like to have good players in that laundry as well.
So far, I vote no
There’s only a single full season and half an off-season to judge, though, is it’s likely to change.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 21, 2012 2:37 PM EST reply actions
WHO CARES
CAN WE PLAY SOME BASEBALL ALREADY MY D.N.A IS GIVING OUT OVER HERE WAITING FOR THIS TEAM TO DO SOMETHING AND ALL WE GET IS TWITTER AND A CUTE DOG AND A TALL RELIEF PICHAR WITH A LOT OF TATOOS AND ANOTHER THING WHY DOES SPRING TRAINING NEED TO BE THIS LONG BACK IN THE DAY WE USED TO THROW TEH BALL AROUND A FEW MINITS AND BOOM WE HAD A GAME GOING ON BUT NOW ALL THESE GUYS NEED DOCTORS AND PRESS CONFERENCES AND LOTS OF PRACTICE BEFORE THEY PLAY ONE LOUSY GAME - HELLO HELLO MR. TWITTERSON CAN YOU STEP IN AND TELL YOAR TEAM TO STOP BEING LAZY AND GO OUT THERE AND WIN SOME GAMES OR ARE YOU TOO BUSY CHARGING YOURE PHONE SO YOU CAN MAKE SOME MORE JOKES ON TWATTER OR MAYBE YOU ARE TOO BUSY ADDING UP YOUR EXPENSES FROM YOUR TRIP HOPING JEFF AND FRED WILL PAY YOU BACK …. HA ! I BET THAT CHECK WILL BOUNCE JUST LIKE THAT LAZY ROLLER WENT THRU BACKMAN’S LEGS AND THE RED SOX WON IN 1986….OH WAIT….NEVER MIND THEN.
One day, this team is going to kill me.
by fxcarden on Feb 21, 2012 4:06 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
this
only thing more overated and soft than osi umenyora is the 2011 eagles
Iman Shumpert is a first ballot hall of famer
a point guard within a point guard within a taco bell within a kfc, its Linception
by metseaglesknicks on Feb 21, 2012 4:29 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
I laughed, I cried... it moved me
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf. "
– Tug McGraw when asked about his preference for grass or astroturf
by Terry_is_God on Feb 21, 2012 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
Now I know
it’s baseball season.
Ralph Kiner: You've gotta change the script, I don't like the script.
Gary Cohen: What's wrong with the script?
Ralph Kiner: Well the script should be the Mets win every day.
And he's back!
Fxcarden’s rants Season 2.
Mr. Twitterson is brilliant.
by MetsFan4Decades on Feb 21, 2012 10:43 PM EST up reply actions
great article
I remember in the book they mentioned if you didn’t average a certain amount of walks you could t win minor leaguer of t he year
only thing more overated and soft than osi umenyora is the 2011 eagles
Iman Shumpert is a first ballot hall of famer
a point guard within a point guard within a taco bell within a kfc, its Linception
by metseaglesknicks on Feb 21, 2012 4:30 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
Weird way of looking at it. They're more 'Saber' than they ever have been, so I voted yes
But True Saber™? What? All I know is, A.I.D.A.: Alderson Isn’t Dumb, Assholes.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf. "
– Tug McGraw when asked about his preference for grass or astroturf
Are the Mets truly saber? Are the Mets fans truly sober?
It’s all relative.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 21, 2012 6:33 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
do we want to be sober when we watch the Mets?
"Fantasy, reality, science Fiction. Which is which? Who can tell?"
by feslenraster on Feb 23, 2012 2:53 PM EST up reply actions

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