Thoughts on 2012
So it's almost that time of year again where hope rings eternal for all MLB teams, even for an up and coming mid-market team like the Mets. The success of this team will rely on what has become commonplace for the Mets in recent memory. A combination of luck, hope, health and multiple bounce back seasons. It's nice to think that something could and should come together for this team for once, but just as always so many questions remain. Where is our starting rotation depth? How will our 'revamped' bullpen perform? Are Davis and Wright fully healed? Is there anything left in Jaybay's overinflated salary and underperforming game? Is Duda's end of season run for real? Can Duda or Murphy play adequate defense? Can Tejada handle a full season? How much can Johan offer? Will Torres revert to his '10 form? That seems enough.
With all these questions its hard to imagine this team being anywhere near successful this season. Especially when you consider the major improvements within the division and the talent gap that exists between the Mets and the rest of the East. Even still, I see the possibility that this team outperforms expectations and finishes in 3rd or 4th. This however requires that all the above questions be resolved in a positive way and I just don't see that happening.
My thoughts on how I see some of those questions being answered. Wright and Davis both have good seasons with Bay and Duda performing adequately. Pelfrey, Niese and Dickey all give solid production; 14, 11 and 13 wins respectively. Murphy plays ok defense at second while his bat under performs; Havens takes over in mid-May. Joahn does not start the year with the team and isn't starting a game until June. Tejada outperforms expectations for most of the season on both sides of the ball. Gee gets knocked around and is unable to stick in the rotation. I think this results for a win total of around 80. What is your Over/Under prediction?
I have big concerns with the rotation. I do not think it is smart for any team to pencil in Johan as a definite starter for more than half of this season. Unless management has some concrete evidence that Johan will be fine, I am confused at to how they have not acquired any sort of rotation depth aside from upper level fillers. There are two potential slots, Johan and Gee, that could need to be filled and there is no depth to back them up. I was hoping for a bottom barrel guy like Jeff Francis at the least. One underrated pitcher I was thinking Sandy ans Co. would definitely target was Paul Maholm; the Cubs wisely picked him up instead. It's very curious as to why this team has not made more moves this off season; although the Wilponzies must be a large part of the issue. Another possibility is management wants to hold steady until a clearer picture develops from which they can work. Either way I don't think they did enough to make this team a winning club.
There is still some room for improvement at this point and I hope Sandy makes another move. Just a few things that I would like to see to shore up some areas. There has been talk about Ankiel as a 5th outfielder which I am fine withthis as long as it is a minor league deal. I wish we would sign both Rich Harden and Mike Gonzalez; minor league and $1 million deals respectively. I think Harden could be a great arm for around 10 starts in the rotation and could then switch to the bullpen to keep him healthy. Gonzalez wouldgive us another effective lefty so Byrdakdoes not get over worked. If Johan comes back healthy and Gee is able to stick in the rotation then sliding Harden into the bullpen would give us a really strong pitching staff.
Then the next big move I would like to see is the Metssolidifying the catcher position. This would add a much needed power boost to the lineup and resolve the black hole we have at backstop. We would accomplish this by trading for a young budding star in Matt Wieters. Wietersis only 25 years old, has a great bat and is also very good behind the plate. Adding his talent and bat to the lineup would really put this offense over the top. The Orioles would be smart to trade one of their young stars but it is unknown which one they would move and at what price. Their system is not that deep and could use either offensive or pitching help. The proposed trade would look as such:
Wieters to NYM for Flores, Valdespin/Puello and Mazzoni/Michael Fulmer to BAL.
I think this is a pretty fair deal where the O'sget a high upside future 3B talent in Flores, a potential impact bat for the IF or OF and a pitcher with no. 2 or 3 upside. It could potentially be a large coup for the O's if Flores fills his potential and Valdespin or Puello are for real. I feel like it could be a bit much for the Mets to give up but the Mets are getting such a great player in return that it makes it worthwhile. While we give up some depth and future pieces, the system will be left with enough assets withpitching and fielding to complement and team with our current young stars for the next few years. When our young starters and a few young position players make the move to the majors our team will be really talented in the years to come.
But for 2012 if things played out well we would be looking at a team structured as such. And this team, I like this team.
Torres, Murphy, Wright, Davis, Wieters, Duda, Bay, Tejada - This could be a scary lineup.
Santana, Dickey, Niese, Pelfrey, Gee - Provided Santana is healthy and Gee sticks
Ramirez, Rauch, Francisco, Gonzalez, Parnell, Harden, Byrdak - Potentially great bullpen
Hairston, Turner, Thole, Ankiel, Cedeno - OK group
All in all the success of this team rests on hope whichever way you look at it.
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im not big on trading away future pieces to try to make this team work in 2012
and just hoping our rotation manages to put it all together. This starting rotation is a HUGE question mark, and odds are Santana doesn’t pitch over 120 innings (max), Gee will be a back end guy, and Pelf is a crapshoot as well. Weiters is a good piece, but i wouldn’t start selling future talent for him in hopes we’re competitive next year. better to hold onto our chips, fold this hand, and go for the win later.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Feb 6, 2012 12:37 AM EST reply actions
Don't think the O's are trading Wieters
They’ve been exploring trading some of their older peripheral stars (Jones, Markakkis, “Guthrie”, the 2b whose name escapes me), but Wieters is the guy you keep and build around.
Harden would be a nice pick-up. You figure, if Santana misses a few starts, Harden is a better option than Schwinden or whoever, and once Santana is back, he’s a better NP option than Carrasco.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 6, 2012 9:12 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I think it's pretty obvious why they haven't made more moves this offseason:
They have no money.
And there’s no way that Wieters trade happens like that. The O’s have few young stars as it is…I don’t see why they’d trade their best one.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
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by Steve Schreiber on Feb 6, 2012 9:22 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Weiters?
Unless Sandy had compromising photos of a certain GM in bed with a horse then there is no way this happens.
I don’t think we have enough talent to give to Baltimore for Weiters anyway. Harvey + Wheeler + Parnell + Ike…yeah, this might get it done.
__________________________________________________________________
Really good kid.A very good player.Not a superstar. #BlameWilponz. Never Forget
by ScottfromPeekskill on Feb 6, 2012 10:22 AM EST reply actions
Not adding a SP
Has been the Wilponzis biggest mistake this off season
Wieters is far from a “star.” He will turn 26 in a few months and has yet to prove he is an elite catcher in this league. He has taken much longer than the O’s initially thought it would take for him to make an impact. Not to mention a catchers offensive production tapers off faster with age than any other position because of the everyday wear and tear. How big is this guys window to be a great player? not that big.
He's a pretty elite catcher.
Was worth 4.3 fWAR last year, 3rd best in the majors. Not to mention he’s excellent defensively and is still young and improving offensively. He cut his strikeouts down and added more power on top of that. The O’s would be nuts to deal him for that package.
Chamption of the R.A. Dickey Face contest and "Cromulent Photoshopper Extraordinaire" of Amazin' Avenue!
You might know me as mistermet.
by Steve Schreiber on Feb 6, 2012 9:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
im pretty amped for this season. i think we can field a competitive offense with a deadly bullpen. should we finally get some good luck it could be a special season. and if not, SA did a great job of picking up role players that contenders would be interested in. so if we have a bad season i could see us clearing out the bench and letting some younger players play. win win in my opinion. alot of people compare our offseason to the 10 dbacks offseason. thatd be cool.
Insert witty comeback here
by birdmansns on Feb 6, 2012 11:44 PM EST via Android app reply actions
sorry for double post
as for wieters, if we could get him, which i dont think we could. id go all out. our propect depth at catcher sucks. and theres no notable young free agents on the way. unless thole makes great strides this season catcher will be pressing spot. since we own sebean any chance we can rape hiim for belt?
Insert witty comeback here
by birdmansns on Feb 6, 2012 11:55 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I think even Sabean knows how valuable Belt is
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Feb 7, 2012 12:47 AM EST up reply actions
very true
but looking at recent history SA has something Sebean doesnt want the world to know….pictures of him kiss barry bonds maybe? laughing with zito at a strip club with a stack of 100s?
Insert witty comeback here
by birdmansns on Feb 7, 2012 1:14 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
like the enthusiasm, and agree the pen and offense should be solid this season
Starting pitching is probably not going to put us over the top, but we should get some enjoyable baseball out of this team.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Feb 7, 2012 12:46 AM EST up reply actions
call to arms
i dont put much into bad defense…so starters are our biggest problem in mg eyes. i only trust neise and dickey. hopefully gee and pelf pitch well enough to not tax our bullpen. im fine with santana going five strong as long as pelf stops his headcase.
Insert witty comeback here
by birdmansns on Feb 7, 2012 1:09 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Yeah, the starting pitching sucks
Though I’m starting to think Dickey is even better than we give him credit for. Only a very few pitchers have had his superior walk rates and ERA- and he’s the best defensive pitcher in the league (though I guess Buehrle is now that he’s on the Marlins).
Just look at the 2006 starting rotation. We won 97 games going into the season with Steve Trachsel, Victor Zambrano, and Brian Bannister as our 3-4-5, with guest appearances by Ollie, Alay Soler, Jose Lima, Geremi Gonzalez and many other retreads. Baseball is different now, but I think we can definitely have a winning record.
37 - 14 - 41 - 31 - 17 - 42 - SHEA
by piazza62 on Feb 7, 2012 8:28 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
please never mention Alay Soler again.. he angers me
but yeah, stranger things have happened, I’m not banking on it, but thats the beauty of baseball, until your E# is zero, you never know..
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Feb 7, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
I don't remember the cause for the angst towards Soler
Yet I feel it too…
37 - 14 - 41 - 31 - 17 - 42 - SHEA
He's Alay Soler. Do we need a reason.
At least he’s not Brian Lawrence, the bum. Or Dave Williams.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!" Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
Ryder or Riot #WWWYKI
AA Gamethread Embiggening Record Holder- 458 posts (08/24/11)
3rd Place- 2011 AAOP Contest | 1st place- 2012 AAOP Contest
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 7, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
its mostly personal for me, although he gave us plenty of forgettable starts (and one really good one)
but I remember being in the stands with a few other Mets fans at an away game (I think it was at fenway but I dont remember for sure). Anyway he saw us Mets fans in the crowd along the outfield wall while they were warming up pre-game, came over with a couple baseballs in his hands, faked like he was going to throw one up to us, then turned around and walked away. Earned him permanent douchebag status in my book.
Hey, wait! I'm having one of those things. You know? A headache with pictures?
by KeithsMoustache on Feb 8, 2012 2:11 AM EST up reply actions
Who can ever forget his awesome game vs the D'Backs in 06?
That is the stuff legends are made out of. Now his start against the Red Sox was as forgettable as it gets.
That's because the team had a awesome offense and bullpen
and the rest of the division was pretty bad. Stranger things have happened but everything has to go right for the team to get to .500.
on a serious note
whos our catcher in 2013 should thole not prove himself? FA market is aj p, yadier molina, russell martin, mccann (team option) and napoli. talk about all our eggs in one basket. better start calling toronto again.
Insert witty comeback here
by birdmansns on Feb 7, 2012 1:22 AM EST via Android app reply actions
That's my dream too
But unless Kevin Towers and the Diamondbacks are complete idiots they’ll extend him soon.
37 - 14 - 41 - 31 - 17 - 42 - SHEA
Yea
I found some quotes about it:
"We’re quite a ways apart on a multi-year deal," Towers said. "He likes it here. We like him here. We’ll maybe re-engage at some point in spring training."
Towers said the chasm in talks is more about the value of the contract rather than its length.
"We’ve got a lot of time to work that out," Towers said.
Montero said he would like to get a deal done by late March, maybe around the 20th, a date that would give him enough time to refocus and prepare for the season.
"I don’t want anything to bother me to play the season," Montero said.
Honestly I am hoping that by the deadline Santana is healthy and the Mets can dump him for some prospects to free up salary, maybe to the blue jays. Then with that money + pelfs money + upping their payroll to 100 mil they can sign Montero, Upton and either Brandon McCarthy or Shawn Marcum.

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