2012 Amazin Avenue Mets Top 50 Prospect List: #15-11

Back to the grindstone today as we round out our final names before we reach the coveted top ten, with nos. 15-11. Definitely some intriguing players today and I'd love to hear everyone's take on some of these guys. As always feel free to challenge me as it's always interesting to hear as many perspectives as possible.
For those that have missed them, you can catch part I ((nos. 50-41) here, part II (nos. 40-31) here and part III (nos. 30-21) here and part IV (nos. 20-16) here. We're going to finish this thing one of these days!
But enough of the pleasantries, let get into the rankings:
15) OF Matt den Dekker
Team
League
AVG
G
AB
R
H
2B
3B
HR
RBI
TB
BB
SO
SB
CS
OBP
SLG
OPS
STL
FSL
.296
67
267
54
79
19
8
6
36
132
24
65
12
5
.362
.494
.857
BIN
EAS
.235
72
272
49
64
13
3
11
32
116
27
91
12
5
.312
.426
.738
Minors
.265
139
539
103
143
32
11
17
68
248
51
156
24
10
.337
.460
.797
Going back to that same old point, the highly athletic 24-yr old 2010 fifth rounder is one of only a handful in the system with a nearly fully developed plus-plus major league skill right now. According to scouts his center field defense is gold glove caliber today; having watched quite a bit of him with Binghamton in 2011 that jibes completely with what I witnessed. The surprise however was his bat, namely his power. After profiling as a light-hitting, glove-first prospect at the time he was drafted, den Dekker posted a nearly .200 ISO at both St. Lucie and Binghamton in 2011. Beyond that he is the rare player who contributes in all statistical categories, posting double-digits in doubles, triples, homers and stolen bases last season.
The issue is that the same long swing from the left side that produced all those extra-base hits is also leading to a lot of strikeouts. More than a lot; in fact, den Dekker whiffed in a brutal 29% of his Double-A at bats last season, which even with a sustainable .305 BABIP pulled his batting average way down. Despite a very solid 8+ career walk rate, he will not have success at the highest levels with that amount of K's. Perhaps a change in approach is in order, less selling out for the long ball and more contact which is perfectly fine from a center fielder. Either way, while K's will always be an issue, if he can just bring them down to a more manageable level -- perhaps in the low 20's -- his solid on-base skills, athletic power/speed mix and sterling defense at a premium position give him the chance to be a major league starter in the mold of a Drew Stubbs. If not, he'll still make a quite valuable 4th-5th outfielder.
14) C Albert Cordero
Team
League
AVG
G
AB
R
H
2B
3B
HR
RBI
TB
BB
SO
SB
CS
OBP
SLG
OPS
SAV
SAL
.286
104
385
38
110
15
2
6
44
147
15
69
1
1
.324
.382
.705
Obviously I’m a big fan of Cordero after his impressive 2011 season. Although, to be more specific I should say his wildly impressive second half. In fact, at the all star break the 21-yr old backstop was batting an anemic .219 with a .585 OPS and a K% nearing a brutal 23%. That’s when the Venezuelan native made some adjustments to his approach, utilizing a more conservative plan of attack at the dish. Suddenly he began making modest gains in walks while making much more significant cuts in strikeouts. This allowed his excellent natural power to begin coming through as his SLG rose each month as his K% fell. And while his all-around performance at the plate blossomed, his excellent defensive potential continued to shine through behind it. He would gun down 40% (24 of 60) base stealers while displaying excellent footwork/quickness.
Catchers have notoriously long lead times developing, yet Cordero is seemingly ahead of the curve. In just his first full season as a pro Cordero has already shown many of the skills to project as a big league regular. Now plate discipline will clearly always be something he must work at. In addition, at just 5'11", 175 lbs it is yet to be seen whether his surprising pop will become more gap-to-gap power at the highest levels. Yet, if he continues to develop at this rate his defensive proficiency and potent bat certainly fit nicely into the mold of a Carlos Ruiz/Yadier Molina-style big league catcher.
Why He's Here: I explained my style of ranking by saying that I’m placing values, not bets. Yet in the last ten I’ve admittedly taken two bets on guys that I like but who by all rights belong at least a little lower. The first was Lutz and in this case Cordero represents someone who I feel will really earn this ranking in the coming season. Perhaps the Mets complete dearth of catchers has colored my opinion a bit but I do feel that in many ways, his superb growth in 2011 and his enviable overall package of valuable skills and ability justify the aggressive bump, at least in my own mind. This sort of development is exciting at any level, even more so when you consider that it was from a catcher in his first go at A-ball who was actually young for the Sally League and playing in a poor hitting environment. Obviously I place a lot of value on a potential homegrown major league average catcher, as they come around so very rarely. And hey, what’s a prospect list without at a bet or two?
13) RHP Cory Mazzoni
Team
League
W
L
ERA
G
GS
CG
SHO
SV
IP
H
R
ER
HR
BB
SO
GO/AO
AVG
BRK
NYP
1
0
0.00
6
1
0
0
0
6.0
5
0
0
0
2
10
1.00
.238
STL
FSL
1
1
2.57
6
0
0
0
0
7.0
7
4
2
1
1
8
0.63
.250
Minors
2
1
1.38
12
1
0
0
0
13.0
12
4
2
1
3
18
0.73
.245
The Mets' 2011 second round selection out of NC State signed just early enough to get his feet wet in pro ball, pitching in six games for the Cyclones as well as St. Lucie. In that short time he showed why many are excited about his future and why many -- like BP's Kevin Goldstein -- consider him a breakout candidate going forward. That's because the 22-yr old Mazzoni is the rare college pitcher that blends refinement, results and top shelf stuff yet was still on the board beyond the first round. First and foremost, Mazzoni's fastball reaches into the mid-90's -- touching 97 mph. Then pair the fact that he features pinpoint command and you're already talking about a very interesting talent. He also features a decent curve/splitter mix that is inconsistent but developing.
However, to be able to nab such a talent so late he of course must have flaws. Despite very good velocity he is known for a rather straight fastball. As our own Alex Nelson pointed out, his 3/4 delivery and lack of great height (6'1") precludes much downward movement, allowing hitters to get under his ball well. That's the whole reason behind the eight homers and the subsequent 3.32 collegiate ERA in 2011 despite dominant H/9 (.213 opp avg), K/9 (10.8) and BB/9 (2.26) marks. The 12 wild pitches look odd too. This is why some project Mazzoni as a late-inning reliever long-term, which would allow his fastball to play up in short stints. Either way, Mazzoni has the right mix of athleticism, arm strength and refinement to move quickly through this system regardless of his role. And with better coaching and more reps I'm optimistic that he'll be able to move up the ranks projecting nicely as a mid-rotation starter, though I'd like to see that growth before placing him in the top ten.
12) RHP Michael Fulmer
| Team | League | W | L | ERA | G | GS | CG | SHO | SV | IP | H | R | ER | HR | BB | SO | GO/AO | AVG |
| MTS | GCL | 0 | 1 | 10.13 | 4 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5.1 | 9 | 7 | 6 | 0 | 4 | 10 | 2.50 | .346 |
Much like I group Pill and Verrett together due to similar ceilings/stuff, I group Fulmer along with the aforementioned Mazzoni in terms of overall ability and ceiling. Fulmer was the Mets 2011 supplemental selection (44th overall) in exchange for losing Pedro Feliciano to the Yankees. Drafted out of an Oklahoma high school, it cost the Mets just short of $1M -- well over MLB slot -- to sway Fulmer's strong commitment to the Univ. of Arkansas. Like Mazzoni, Fulmer signed just in time to get a little seasoning, though he was less successful in his four appearances with the GCL Mets. However, he too features a low-to-mid 90's heater and an advanced slurve for a prep product. Though like most prep pitchers his change-up lags far behind.
But unlike Verrett and Pill, Fulmer and Mazzoni have some bigger differences. Namely, the two are four years apart; and at 18 Fulmer certainly has some more time for growth. Additionally, at 6'3", 200 lbs the room for some projection is certainly there. Don't be surprised to see the OK City product add a couple ticks to his fastball before all is said and done. He also doesn't feature quite as much command, though again most high school pitchers don't. Basically, Fulmer features a similar -- if somewhat rawer -- overall package to Mazzoni though with more room for growth long-term, meaning a slightly higher ceiling -- a major league no. two if all works out. But just as youth/inexperience works as a positive, it also works against Fulmer in the sense that any teenage pitcher represents a tremendous amount of risk based on distance from the majors alone. That fact keeps him out of the top ten for now, but with a little bit of success the strong-armed righty could easily change that by the end of 2012.
11) SS Wilmer Flores
2011 Season
Team
League
AVG
G
AB
R
H
2B
3B
HR
RBI
TB
BB
SO
SB
CS
OBP
SLG
OPS
STL
FSL
.269
133
516
52
139
26
2
9
81
196
27
68
2
2
.309
.380
.689
2011 Offseason Leagues
Team
League
AVG
G
AB
R
H
2B
3B
HR
RBI
TB
BB
SO
SB
CS
OBP
SLG
OPS
MAR
VWL
.301
41
133
16
40
6
0
2
10
52
17
26
2
0
.382
.391
.773
The 20-yr old Flores drops nine spots on this list -- and right out of the top ten -- for the simple reason that he didn't hit enough in 2011. Though I suppose that warrants a bit more discussion. Specifically, it has become clear by now that his defensive home will not be shortstop. This puts additional pressure on his bat to improve a lot in order to play to a position where more offense is expected, be that third base, left field, etc.* However, not only did he not improve a lot, he didn't really improve at all, which isn't really good even if he wasn't moving to left field.
| Year (Level) | BB% | K% | ISO | XBH% |
| 2010 (A/A+) | 5.4 | 12.9 | .135 | 8.4 |
| 2011 (A+) | 4.8 | 12.2 | .110 | 6.6 |
As you can see, he didn't regress -- at least not when you figure he played a full season at Hi-A instead of a half season in 2010. Instead he just looked like the same guy as 2010, which isn't ideal from any young player that hasn't yet reached his peak, let alone someone that needs to improve quite a bit. Now he's shown some things this winter -- namely much better plate discipline -- with his club in the VWL. But I've found that the more stock you place in winter league stats, the more you're going to find yourself disappointed. At this point there's too much good talent at the top of this system to continue to put such high hopes in the 'age vs level' prospects. That may have flown with guys like FMart and Gomez back when the system was weaker but not now. Especially lacking any plus-plus tool, now Flores needs to hit to earn his place. And to this point he's shown that he's an unathletic, rather slow player who can indeed make good contact but shows average at best power, a stagnating hit tool and may be able to handle third, if we're lucky (according to some scouts). In other words, a trumped up Danny Valencia.
The good news is that there is a road map in place for Flores to be better than that. I mean the list of 19/20-yr olds that have posted such respectable numbers in the pitching-friendly FSL -- or SAL for that matter -- isn't exactly long; I know I hated on the 'age v. league' stuff but it does carry at least some weight. And as I mentioned, his central strength at this point is the ability to make contact, which with additional strength can easily translate to harder contact, more power and with some luck better plate discipline. It's all feasible, though how plausible? That's a complete judgment call based on how much you buy into Flores. I'm going to be honest and say that having watched him enough I do see him taking a step forward with the bat in 2012, at least in the power department; enough to make up for the upcoming defensive move though? All I know is that when placed in the context of a new position the future definitely starts to feel murky, but it'd look a whole lot clearer if he'd just hit some more in 2012.
*People -- most recently the SNY Why Guys -- have supposed a move to second base for Flores based on his appearance there in the VWL. Yet, second demands nearly as much lateral quickness as short and so if he's not close to sticking there then he's probably not a good fit for the keystone either...at least not if you want some semblance of good infield defense. Once again, don't put too much stock into what happens in winter league baseball; it is a unique scenario where players from all levels are mashed together to form the best unit for that given 2-3 month period, with little or no regard to growth or development of the individual.
________________________________________________________________
Compiled Top 50 Mets prospect rankings:
11. SS Wilmer Flores
12. RHP Michael Fulmer
13. RHP Cory Mazzoni
14. C Albert Cordero
15. CF Matt den Dekker
16. 3B Zach Lutz
17. 3B Aderlin Rodriguez
18. RHP Akeel Morris
19. LHP Darin Gorski
20. OF Cory Vaughn
21. 3B Jefry Marte
22. RHP Domingo Tapia
23. SS Phillip Evans
24. SS Wilfredo Tovar
25. RHP Collin McHugh
26. OF Darrell Ceciliani
27. SS Danny Muno
28. LHP Josh Edgin
29. LHP Jack Leathersich
30. LHP Juan Urbina
31. RHP Erik Goeddel
32. RHP Chris Schwinden
33. RHP Josh Stinson
34. IF Robbie Shields
35. LHP Mark Cohoon
36. RHP Brett Pill
37. RHP Armando Rodriguez
38. RHP Logan Verrett
39. SS Juan Carlos Gamboa
40. SS Bradley Marquez
41. RHP Taylor Whitenton
42. RHP Greg Peavey
43. RHP Luis Mateo
44. RHP Rafael Montero
45. C Cam Maron
46. RHP Nick Carr
47. LHP Robert Carson
48. OF Travis Taijeron
49. OF Gilbert Gomez
50. RHP Ryan Fraser
51*. OF Javier Rodriguez
52*. RHP Brad Holt
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Comments
The 10-20 range is really the most interesting part of the Mets list
The top 10 is really kind of the same everywhere, and we know all about the strengths and weaknesses of the Havens, Puellos and Harveys of the world. (though apparently you have Lagares in the top 10, which I will end up strenuously, if politely, disagreeing with)
You have Cordero and Den Dekker a tick higher than me. I can see the argument, though. You have two guys at up the middle positions who have a better shot at having major league careers than anyone else outside the top 10 or so (and better then some inside the top 10). Both their gloves will likely get them to the majors in some capacity, but neither are what I would call high ceiling guys. I suppose I can squint and see Cordero as an above average catcher in the Yadier Molina mode if the bat continues to develop, but it is tough for me to buy into Den Dekker as much more than a fourth outfielder with that max effort swing. Now with a plus centerfield glove, you can maybe live with a 40 hit tool. Problem is he’s not young, and I think he is pretty close to a finished product, but weighting floor and performance a little heavier, I can see an argument for having him in the top 15. I think I weight upside a little heavier than you do, so I would put guys like Morris and Evans ahead of them.
I think I have to cop to probably underrating Mazzoni at this point. I had him back towards Pill and Verrett, but everyone else seems to have him as a top 15 guy. Hard to find fault with his junior season or his SSS performance in pro ball, but I am just leery of guys that throw a splitter instead of a change and don’t have a good breaking pitch. That’s the kind of profile that dominates MiLB hitters, but has less of a success rate in MLB. Something about him just screams bullpen arm to me, but I’d be happy to be wrong about it. I do agree he will move fast either way, but I could see him ending up as a better version of Parnell in the end.
I have Fulmer in the Top 10, but I love prep pitchers that already have good breaking balls. And I think he kind of got over looked with so many great Oklahoma HS arms in the draft.
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by Jeffrey Paternostro on Feb 6, 2012 11:28 AM EST reply actions
agreed
it’s probably not even necessary to go into nearly as much detail for those names that we’re used to hearing on just about every top ten list.
as for lagares, he’s another one that i look forward to hearing some differing opinions about. i know there’s not as much fanfare for him in this community but i found myself drinking the kool-aid more and more as the year went on. but let’s not let the cat out of the bag on that one.
completely agree with your sentiments on fulmer re: getting overlooked. with a couple of top flight talents like bundy and bradley alongside him, it was easy to forget that Fulmer absolutely has the kind of ability to join that elite class. for me, if he can take full advantage of his size and push that velo consistently into the mid-90’s next season, paired with his advanced secondary offerings, then we’re onto something.
by Rob Castellano on Feb 6, 2012 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
Went with ARod on the vote
I think you mention this if you read about all 3, but his power is the only plus tool those guys have shown, and it is really good power. You can’t teach power, just maximize it, but his many flaws are fixable if he is willing to work hard
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Steroids are the only way to teach HR power.
by Putnan Prince on Feb 6, 2012 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
so many reasons to not get into this
but I will say you can maximize power with improved hitting mechanics, or just trying to pull everything
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
Have to disagree
You can give David Ecksteing all the hitting mechanics and allow him to pull everything and he won’t have any power.
Counterpoint
Ben Zobrist before Jaime Cevallos: sub .100 ISO, .300 SLG
Ben Zobrist after Jaime Cevallos: over .200 ISO, .500 SLG
In lobby for: Jaime Cevallos, Zack Lutz, orange unis and Rickroll as the 7th inning song.
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by Michkin on Feb 7, 2012 11:37 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
yeah
a year or two back i did an interview with mets minor leaguer michael fisher who works with ben zobrist in the offseason. he said that cevallos instructed him on rotational hitting, which works kind of like it sounds where the hitter makes more of an effort to rotate the hips and thus derive more power from his swing.
we all know how it worked for zobrist but look at fisher’s minor league splits; he went from a guy who regularly posted ISO’s in the .060-.080 range — which got him cut by the braves — to averaging about .150 since the switch/joining the mets.
by Rob Castellano on Feb 7, 2012 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
that is exactly whom I was thinking of
the name was on the tip of my tongue, just couldn’t get it out that late at night
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
Additionally, every Royal that started hitting for power after they hired Kevin Seitzer
Even Frenchy had a good season with him, and I refuse to give credit for Francoeur doing anything on his own.
37 - 14 - 41 - 31 - 17 - 42 - SHEA
And Jose Bautista with Dwayne Murphy (?).
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I remember hearing about how he changed to a more uppercut swing
to add some lift to the ball. I dont think that would necessarily explain all of the extra homers so maybe it’s the lower body rotational thing.
Swing, approach, ballpark.
He changed his swing but also totally refined his approach. He sits on inside pitches pull and basically lets everything else go or fouls it off.
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he wouldn't have much power
he would have the maximum power his body allows
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
That's pretty not true
Just like guys who are 5’10" can throw 90+ because of proper mechanics fully utilizing the torque and kinetic energy of their body, same thing goes for hitting.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 7, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
I like the aggressive ranking of Cordero.
It seems like a lot of people are sleeping on him, probably because of his poor first half pulling his overall line down. I’m pretty excited to see what he can do in St. Lucie. His second half last year was impressive. I’ve got a good feeling about him.
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by Steve Schreiber on Feb 6, 2012 2:36 PM EST via mobile reply actions
yeah
i’d say that his smallish frame worries me in terms of his power potential at the highest levels but he just did all that in savannah; there’s some surprising pop in that kid’s bat.
by Rob Castellano on Feb 7, 2012 12:01 AM EST up reply actions
Don't disagree with much
I’d flip den Dekker with Fulmer. Fulmer’s got the upside, sure, but den Dekker has the sweet defense, and his overall numbers aren’t bad. Hitting .235/.312/.426 in 72 games, and all those strikeouts is definitley a point of concern, but he’s got pop and he’s got speed, and those things don’t magically dry out at his age. Fixing those things don’t happen overnight, but as was said, if the Ks can be brought down to a more manageable level, his average goes up, and if we have a young centerfielder who plays plus defense that hits .260/.330/.400 with 15-20 stolen bases, that’s basically Austin Jackson right there, and I’d have no major problem with a player like that for however long.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 6, 2012 3:03 PM EST reply actions
Don't forget the social media aspect
den Dekker brings a great Twitter presence, which the team is currently a bit lacking in (Turner just doesn’t cut it). Add in Wheeler and the 2014 Mets could be a powerful force in social media. That will help them win, right?
Uh, Dickey?
Hello!
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 7, 2012 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
He's been pretty quiet lately
It’s like he’s been spending the offseason up on a mountain or something…
This is probably where I finally have some real problems with your rankings.
MDD with a 30% K rate isn’t even a lock on a 4th OF floor and at age 24 I wouldn’t bet on improvements.
This also means you have Lagares ranked in your top 10 which seems like a stretch to me. Only 2 types sustain a high BABIP, speedsters and freaky line drive hitters. Lagares is neither. And if you regress him he becomes rather ordinary with a big red flag with the low walks.
I like the aggressive Cordero ranking even if I don’t agree with it. I at least understand bullishness when it comes to a “hey it’s a catcher who might’ve learned how to hit.”
I agree his LD% is surprisingly low, but I thought Lagares had good speed?
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
He's above average to good on speed.
His BABIP was pretty normal pre 2011 so his speed wasn’t helping on that front. So, he either learned how to hit the ball harder or the more likely flukey BABIP explanation. His LD% didn’t spike so I just don’t buy the hits harder theory.
fly balls going deeper?
plus, thought those minor league line drive rates are notoriously terrible
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
Not talking about Lagares specifically, but the "hit for average" tool/skill is probably the hardest thing to gauge, by scouts or players with little track record.
The simple and flawed battled ball classification we have now (LD/GB/FB) is not enough to measure that.
In lobby for: Jaime Cevallos, Zack Lutz, orange unis and Rickroll as the 7th inning song.
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MDD inprove at FSL
so there is hope that he will improve with some experience at each level. Still a high rate. Saw increased power but I dont think that should be his game
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by Rickfansince76 on Feb 9, 2012 3:58 AM EST up reply actions
Kind of O/T
Are we going to do a community ranking this offseason?
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up to you guys
i’ll leave he ball in your court on that one, though selfishly i do always enjoy seeing where i stack up against the group…
by Rob Castellano on Feb 7, 2012 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
Cool.
Who ran them last year? I can’t remember.
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thought it was mistermet
would love to, though we would have to speed things up at this point. Something fun to count down the season with. DO IT!
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I'm not sure who did it last year but I don't think it was me.
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by Steve Schreiber on Feb 7, 2012 9:21 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Okay I will Post the first poll later today
and if whoever ran it last year wants to take the lead from there then he will.
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you would remember better
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You know, I completely forgot about him: Where does Steven Matz fit in here?
Who knows how he will be post-surgery, but even that might be countered by the fact he’s only 20, and is a lefty.
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by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Feb 6, 2012 7:14 PM EST reply actions
File this under good problems to have that we don't have him on a top 50?
I’d personally probably put him in the 40 something range and dump Stinson or Arm Rod.
matz
he’s part of a group of guys that i considered exempt from this list due to health reasons. i mean honestly how can you reasonably evaluate a high school pitcher who was raw to begin with and hasn’t thrown a pro pitch — or any pitch — in over two years? and then rate him against players that have actually been on the field? obviously this is all guesswork but that’s like closing your eyes and throwing darts kind of guesswork.
by Rob Castellano on Feb 6, 2012 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
especially considering he was only good his senior year after a growth spurt
and played against poor competition on LI (Ward Melville has not had good anything except Lacrosse), while obviously being overworked by the shitty coaches there (they were assholes)
2012 New York Mets, World Series Champions!
I like the aggressive ranking for cordero
I think his slow first half and not truly impressive bat make him overlooked a lot. We underestimate how valuable a plus defensive catcher with a good arm can be to an ML team, people are scared by the Jeff Mathis-drew butera types but I like cordero’s pop.
37 - 14 - 41 - 31 - 17 - 42 - SHEA
by piazza62 on Feb 7, 2012 8:35 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Flores...I was disappointed with his season
but maybe he comes in with more focus
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