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Around SBN: Ellenberger vs. Sanchez Heats Up, Hughes Talks Retirement

Open Thread - Game 86: Mets vs Pirates (07/08/2005) on FSNY

 Starting Pitchers

 J. Fogg
Pit
vs.
 V. Zambrano
NYM
4-4 Record 4-7
4.42 ERA 3.80
51 K 58
28 BB 49
15 HR 5
Lineups
 Pittsburgh  New York
M. Lawton, RF J. Reyes, SS
F. Sanchez, 3B M. Cameron, RF
J. Bay, LF C. Beltran, CF
R. Mackowiak, CF C. Floyd, LF
J. Castillo, 2B D. Wright, 3B
D. Ward, 1B M. Anderson, 1B
R. Doumit, C R. Castro, C
J. Wilson, SS M. Cairo, 2B
J. Fogg, P V. Zambrano, P
Willie Randolph said the other day that Ramon Castro was going to start catching more often than he has been, so I guess he wasn't kidding. Jason Bay is batting .308/.393/.562 for the Bucs. He was traded by the Mets to the Padres for Steve Reed. He's 26. *cries*

Follow the game online (opens in new window):
- MLB.com Gameday
- Yahoo! Box Score
- ESPN.com Box Score
- CBS SportsLine GameCenter

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Nice time to start a sweep
We want some MO (and not more Vaughn) carrying us through the break.

by peeder on Jul 8, 2005 6:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Screw up by the umpires
Big time. Steal, lets get him home.
"Hate it or Love it the underdog's on top and i'ma shyne homie until my heart stop"-50 cent

by erik from the bx on Jul 8, 2005 7:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Reyes got called out at second
but the ball hit reyes the dirt and went away the ump didn't notice and niether did jose, so while he walked bacc to the dugout they tagged him out. The first base ump awarded reyes second and he scored on a bulk when reyes went chargin down the line.
"Hate it or Love it the underdog's on top and i'ma shyne homie until my heart stop"-50 cent

by erik from the bx on Jul 8, 2005 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pirates baseball
Only if Reyes had some kind of OBP.
"Hate it or Love it the underdog's on top and i'ma shyne homie until my heart stop"-50 cent

by erik from the bx on Jul 8, 2005 7:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Anyone get the impression that
Marlon is earning himself the 2b position?

He plays an exciting brand of baseball, with steals and decent defense and even an inside-the-park homerun. He's hitting consistently over .300...and while some of that is pinch hitting it's getting a bit too regular to dismiss it as situational or even platooning. His lefty bat is useful, especially with Willieball...

Simpler question...would anyone prefer to see KazMat getting starts instead of Marlon?

by peeder on Jul 8, 2005 7:34 PM EDT reply actions  

is his d good enough
to play regularly, mets may look to improve here via trade
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

in the short term
i think willie just going to pick one of the 1 of the 4 by who hitting well and who is pitching that night
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Of course not
Marlon is the man.
"Hate it or Love it the underdog's on top and i'ma shyne homie until my heart stop"-50 cent

by erik from the bx on Jul 8, 2005 7:44 PM EDT reply actions  

You were good
you didn't jinx the no-no thru 11 batters.

by peeder on Jul 8, 2005 7:57 PM EDT reply actions  

it zambrano
i know hes pitched well but the chance of him pitching a no-no are about the same as rey ordonez winning the batting crown
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Didn't Shea Rey
hit .320 or something into August one year after he became Bay Rey?

by peeder on Jul 8, 2005 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

i don' think it was that
late in the season
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

If beltran swings at the first pitch again
I'm lose it fo real.
"Hate it or Love it the underdog's on top and i'ma shyne homie until my heart stop"-50 cent

by erik from the bx on Jul 8, 2005 7:58 PM EDT reply actions  

The 8 hole
Cairo's getting a hit and then just being stranded brings up the issue of the 8 hole and what type of hitter should hit there.

I see two common scenarios: what we just saw, 1 out or 2 out and the 8 hitter comes up and unless they homer they are unlikely to score or drive in many runs (the high-OBP players hitting earlier in the order, one presumes) or they come up with 0 out and the pitcher bunts them to second hoping the leadoff guy (not usually an RBI-type hitter) can drive them home.

So that makes me think the 8 hole is perfectly suited for one of the Dave Kingman types, who either hits homers or strikes out. Because if there are 1 or 2 outs you want this guy to hit a homer and clear the bases because otherwise his production is likely going to be wasted there. If he strikes out, inning over and maybe the pitcher leads off or just follows with the third out, but that's not necessarily the 8-batters fault.

Usually these Kingman types hit 5th, 6th, or worst of all, cleanup, and they generally kill rallies there nestled amongst high-OBP guys. One has to imagine you want to play all or nothing with your 8-hole batter, if you can convince these ego-laden heavy hitters to play for you there.

by peeder on Jul 8, 2005 8:11 PM EDT reply actions  

problem
with this is that in the national league they dave kingman type would get walked all the time cause the pitchers on deck and no one going to risk giving up a hr to the "dave kingman" type
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

but you waste
the production of the dave kingman type
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think so
They aren't very productive by definition, and there are plenty of times in a game where walking him will either walk in a run or bring up a pinch hitter you don't want to face with men on base.

But never having the pitcher lead off is a massive win I have to imagine. That makes your leadoff batter the leadoff hitter far more often.

Just placing your worst hitter 8th, perhaps with a bit of speed for the bunting scenario, which is what lots of people do, just means you usually kill one rally and nip another in the bud the next inning.

by peeder on Jul 8, 2005 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

In other words
just as bunching your high-OBP guys in the order makes sense to provide rallies, bunching your surefire outs doesn't make sense either because it is certain to kill one rally and maybe two.

The Kingman type is mostly a surefire out, but the threat is severe enough that it doesn't count as one.

by peeder on Jul 8, 2005 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

to me
your worse hitter should bat 7th in the nl lineup because you usually can get pitches to hit in that spot and most of your rally have started at the top and scored already, the 8th hitter should be a guy decent plate displine who a weak hitter otherwise because he walk and clear the pitcher, your dave kingman type should probably bat in the 6th spot where he can occasionally deliver the coup de grace to rallies
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kingman, by the way
Baseball Reference:

9th all time in strikeouts, 29th all time in homers.

by peeder on Jul 8, 2005 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

by definiton
if you bunch your high OBP guys then the low OBP are going to be bunched too because they have to hit in the spots not occupied by the high OBP guys
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Think
Yeah, but Kingman has a lifetime OBP of .302...he is a low OBP guy, and so what do you do with his fat SLG?

You put it in the 8 hole is what I'm saying.

(And by the way, that raises his OBP due to the IBBs...which is why Kong's OBP is over .300 anyway.)

by peeder on Jul 8, 2005 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

what good does it do your lineup
to have a guy hitting solo hr in the 8th spot, we killed willie for batting vic diaz 8th when he was hot early in the year
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

It scores a run is what it does.
And that's what your offense is trying to do.

When Diaz was hot, he was a high OBP guy.

Kingman types are available a dime a dozen in the minors. Every minor league team has one. What use are they? They never come up because of the low OBP. But in the national league, they can serve as pitcher clearers and base clearers, for cheap.

by peeder on Jul 8, 2005 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

why not bat him higher
and have hit a 3hr which may score 3 runs, reason those guys never come up (ie. brazell) because they can hit curveballs with the lousy plate displine, so they end up doing less than nothing in the majors
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Offense
Lets get it poppin this inning and get some runs.
"Hate it or Love it the underdog's on top and i'ma shyne homie until my heart stop"-50 cent

by erik from the bx on Jul 8, 2005 8:11 PM EDT reply actions  

mets just got a break
reyes never retouch 2nd on that bloop
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 8:16 PM EDT reply actions  

yeah
basically
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think he officially
went back, one foot was past the second base bag.
"Hate it or Love it the underdog's on top and i'ma shyne homie until my heart stop"-50 cent

by erik from the bx on Jul 8, 2005 8:21 PM EDT reply actions  

wright might be in too far
wilson could steal third and he couldn't get back to cover
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 8:23 PM EDT reply actions  

Well the 6th is Zambrano's difficult inning
Like the 1st was for Leiter when he was here.

by peeder on Jul 8, 2005 8:28 PM EDT reply actions  

yeah if cammy
would have caught that ball the wilson hit the inning would be over already
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cubs sent down Corey Patterson?
Thats crazy, Ya'll heard about Preston Wilson going to Washington?
"Hate it or Love it the underdog's on top and i'ma shyne homie until my heart stop"-50 cent

by erik from the bx on Jul 8, 2005 8:34 PM EDT reply actions  

yeah
he and dusty appearently had a not to pleasent discussion when he was benched the other day in favor of jerry hairston, dusty miscast him as he never had any business hitting at the top of the order and made his struggles worse, he was getting to kazmat like booing level in chitown
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

as for preston wilson
they definately need another hitter in the lineup esp. w/ no nick johnson, if they get wilson they can move wilkerson to 1st in the interim until nj gets back, colorado gonna unload him as they are probably the worse team in all of baseball and have no use for a highly paid CF
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

in that lineup
we saw this week they have about 3 guys who could be batting 8th
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yow
nice when the stand-in sings like the prima donna.

by peeder on Jul 8, 2005 8:36 PM EDT reply actions  

great understudy performance
by castro, encore
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

here we go again
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 8:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Oh come on
was that a bad error by our Future™?

We're just about to seal this thing...

by peeder on Jul 8, 2005 8:49 PM EDT reply actions  

it was a play that should have
made it was tough but a play that shortshops make on a daily basis, slow hit grounder so he had to charge it and he just botched it after that
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lets hope Jose gets on again
So we can get that run bacc, Anybody going to see that fantastic 4 shit?
"Hate it or Love it the underdog's on top and i'ma shyne homie until my heart stop"-50 cent

by erik from the bx on Jul 8, 2005 8:52 PM EDT reply actions  

I hope Jose
Doesn't watch Beltran when he comes to the olate, he has some awful Atbats. Any great Met colums in the papers today? If so i'll go read one now
"Hate it or Love it the underdog's on top and i'ma shyne homie until my heart stop"-50 cent

by erik from the bx on Jul 8, 2005 8:59 PM EDT reply actions  

not really
crap met coverage when their on the road i noticed, too cheap to send writers out on the shuttle/acela, to see washington or lazy with the skanees in town and so many easy giambalco alive articles to write
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Would you walk Jason Bay?
"Hate it or Love it the underdog's on top and i'ma shyne homie until my heart stop"-50 cent

by erik from the bx on Jul 8, 2005 9:03 PM EDT reply actions  

putting the tying run
on base, he's good but he isn't bonds/pulojs/valdy level yet
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

can the mets
just have a 6-1 win every once in while instead of the friggin scary games
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Looper's paying them
to give him save opportunities.

by peeder on Jul 8, 2005 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

That was almost gone
Almost ain't good enough though.
"Hate it or Love it the underdog's on top and i'ma shyne homie until my heart stop"-50 cent

by erik from the bx on Jul 8, 2005 9:04 PM EDT reply actions  

i thought it was when he hit it
this ballpark seems to play like a pitcher park though, i thought the first castro ball was gone too
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Big ass center field fence
Watched the ball, Wright needed that hit he was slumpin a lil bit.
"Hate it or Love it the underdog's on top and i'ma shyne homie until my heart stop"-50 cent

by erik from the bx on Jul 8, 2005 9:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Didn't Corey Paterson hit 30 homeuns last year?
Why is he hittin leadoff in the first place and can the cubs afford not havin his bat in the lineup?
"Hate it or Love it the underdog's on top and i'ma shyne homie until my heart stop"-50 cent

by erik from the bx on Jul 8, 2005 9:15 PM EDT reply actions  

He should bat 8th =D
And his speed would help in the bunting scenario.

by peeder on Jul 8, 2005 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

your obsessed
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

why he hitting
leadoff is a question only dusty baker and answer cause i have no clue, he hit 24 hr last year w/ 72 rbi .266/.320/.452 with a 168K, this year he at .232/.270/.379 with 11hr, basically cammy like numbers, who should be hitting 6th
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Anybody else still want
Ciaro to play everyday?
"Hate it or Love it the underdog's on top and i'ma shyne homie until my heart stop"-50 cent

by erik from the bx on Jul 8, 2005 9:19 PM EDT reply actions  

mets don't have an
every day 2nd basemen right now, cairo is as good as any of the rest of them, cairo should play when pedro on the mound cause you don't need that many runs for him and he is the best defender
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Itshitty is pitching tamarra right?
Other than that, with Pedro on Sunday, things are looking up.

by peeder on Jul 8, 2005 9:20 PM EDT reply actions  

yeah
he is the scheduled starter
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

the mets
need to watch a tom emanski video the base running this week has been horrible
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:22 PM EDT reply actions  

Ramon Castro...
is seriously one of the dumbest baseball players I've ever seen.  That was a pretty funny display in the dugout though when Floyd went up to talk to him

by RMKMets on Jul 8, 2005 9:23 PM EDT reply actions  

yeah floyd didn't exactly
remind of derek jeter running the bases yesterday
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

leave this poor man alone
http:http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=bartman
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:23 PM EDT reply actions  

he made a mistake
it would have been nice if alex gonzalez could have made a play or prior get and out or dusty got off his ass and pulled prior, let it die already
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Most reclusive man in sports?
He ain't "in sports" and never was.

by peeder on Jul 8, 2005 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

who says alou catches that ball anyway
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

i mean
the poor guy life probably been ruined by all of this at least let him get on with it in peace
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

What the hell was Castro thinkin?
Ball goess over outfielder's head and your on second...........you score!
"Hate it or Love it the underdog's on top and i'ma shyne homie until my heart stop"-50 cent

by erik from the bx on Jul 8, 2005 9:25 PM EDT reply actions  

it hit halfway up a 25 foot fence
for god sake he didn't think lawton would catch it
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

did he think gumby
was playing right field
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

And here, jonboy
is a preview of Heilman closing out the 9th.

Not much better than Looper tonight...

by peeder on Jul 8, 2005 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah
i guess is about the same, tough to watch
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is this a save for looper?
If he gets it he'll be the happiest man on the mets.
"Hate it or Love it the underdog's on top and i'ma shyne homie until my heart stop"-50 cent

by erik from the bx on Jul 8, 2005 9:32 PM EDT reply actions  

yes
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Heilman? Hell, man!
I get home and turn on and he's getting all pseudo-Loop on my ass.

by Ken Phelps on Jul 8, 2005 9:32 PM EDT reply actions  

He is not going to walk
That was at his eyes
"Hate it or Love it the underdog's on top and i'ma shyne homie until my heart stop"-50 cent

by erik from the bx on Jul 8, 2005 9:38 PM EDT reply actions  

breaking ball
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

In Heilman's locker tomorrow
There'll be a gift from Looper saying "Thanks for the save opportunity, and sorry about those inherited runners..."

by peeder on Jul 8, 2005 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh.
So much for the save, the game, and the sweep.

Bhwoooohoohoooohooooooooo

by peeder on Jul 8, 2005 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

that castro thing looking really bad right now
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Loop is getting all real-Loop on my ass.
Why didn't he pull the chain on Redmon?

by Ken Phelps on Jul 8, 2005 9:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Loop is getting all real-Loop on my ass.
Why didn't he pull the chain on Redmon?

by Ken Phelps on Jul 8, 2005 9:40 PM EDT reply actions  

SHIT!!!
NO!!!!  GOD NO!
"Hate it or Love it the underdog's on top and i'ma shyne homie until my heart stop"-50 cent

by erik from the bx on Jul 8, 2005 9:40 PM EDT reply actions  

what is cliffy floyd thinking
about
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:40 PM EDT reply actions  

that 4 run means nothing
catch the ball on a hop
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

WTF IS GOING ON???
They gonna blow this CRAP?!??!?!
"They win the damn thing by a score of 10-9!"

by ZaBlanc on Jul 8, 2005 9:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Lets get the hell out of this inning
Without seein jason bay.
"Hate it or Love it the underdog's on top and i'ma shyne homie until my heart stop"-50 cent

by erik from the bx on Jul 8, 2005 9:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Poor Zambrano
First time all year I've had to say that.  Wow, Heilman has really dissapointed lately.
"They win the damn thing by a score of 10-9!"

by ZaBlanc on Jul 8, 2005 9:44 PM EDT reply actions  

That was awful
I can't believe what I just saw

by RMKMets on Jul 8, 2005 9:44 PM EDT reply actions  

If you want a no decision...
Aaron Heilman is your man ladies and gentelmen

by RMKMets on Jul 8, 2005 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

willie should close
the clubhouse tonight win or lose and discuss the play in the ninth inning, it was simply unacceptable fundamental baseball
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:44 PM EDT reply actions  

This was bound to happen....
with all the poor baserunning, it was gonna come back and bite them somehow.  Hopefully it's not a game deciding mistake now

by RMKMets on Jul 8, 2005 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

not just the baserunning
the floyd play, castro not calling a slider to redman, embarassing
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ramon Castro should he FINED
if his dumbass doesn't make that retarded base running mistake they'd have had AT LEAST one more run on the board

by RMKMets on Jul 8, 2005 9:45 PM EDT reply actions  

probably 2 cairo
on 3rd less than two out infield in
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

that was about as bad inning
of baseball i have seen this year
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:45 PM EDT reply actions  

Yea They have been
Awful fundamentaly, runnin themselfs out of innings and divin for balls they should'nt.
"Hate it or Love it the underdog's on top and i'ma shyne homie until my heart stop"-50 cent

by erik from the bx on Jul 8, 2005 9:46 PM EDT reply actions  

All the earmarks
I pray to God (if I believed in her) the Mets win this game...because if they lose, it's the worst loss of the year. Hands down.

I want momentum going into the break.  I want Pedro to be going for a sweep on Sunday.

But this game has all the earmarks of the Mets doing nothing ofensively and losing in the bottom of the 10th.

"They win the damn thing by a score of 10-9!"

by ZaBlanc on Jul 8, 2005 9:48 PM EDT reply actions  

If that happens....
it's typical of this team, and it just goes to show you that despite how excited any of us want to get about them...in all honesty they're probably just not that good

by RMKMets on Jul 8, 2005 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

they scored 5
and should have had 7, this is awful willie should rip these guys a new one
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Carlos and the first pitch popup.
Man, sure does happen a lot.

by Ken Phelps on Jul 8, 2005 9:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Sounds like a children's book
They should have it on one of those United Way commercials.

by peeder on Jul 8, 2005 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like
the way you think.  It could start a series of kid's books, and be followed by Run, Ramon, Run! and Loop Goes Poop.

by Ken Phelps on Jul 8, 2005 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

This games over
The Managers pissed and the players have their heads down. They're waitin to lose. BELTRAN SWUNG AT THREE FIRST PITCHES TONIGHT!!!
"Hate it or Love it the underdog's on top and i'ma shyne homie until my heart stop"-50 cent

by erik from the bx on Jul 8, 2005 9:49 PM EDT reply actions  

beltran
gotta know at this point THERE NOT GOING TO THROW YOU A FASTBALL UNLESS THEY FALL BEHIND IN THE COUNT
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

i have
never seen a player hit so many early count breaking balls for weak 4-3 groundouts
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

With his salary
you could fine him $100K every one of those he hits.

by peeder on Jul 8, 2005 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

The manager should be pissed....
hopefully he lets the freakin team have it too after the game.  Heilman, Floyd, Castro, Reyes, Cameron...all culprits

by RMKMets on Jul 8, 2005 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

This just totally makes me sick....
watch Bay hit an extra base hit here

by RMKMets on Jul 8, 2005 9:50 PM EDT reply actions  

ok good....
dodged that bullet

by RMKMets on Jul 8, 2005 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

In other news
No baseball or softball in the 2012 London Olympics.

But they are trying to create a World Baseball Classic tournament to be held, World-Cup-style, in March.

by peeder on Jul 8, 2005 9:51 PM EDT reply actions  

bullshit
anti-american IOC politics
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Really?
Anti-Venezuelan, anti-Cuban, anti-D.R., etc., as well?  Just sayin'.

by Ken Phelps on Jul 8, 2005 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

but
baseball generally associated with Americana that why i think they were target the IOC is a bunch of corrpt bribe taking bastards anyway
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

On this, anyway,
the IOC is a bunch of corrpt bribe taking bastards anyway

you are correct.

And we lose.

by Ken Phelps on Jul 8, 2005 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Close One
Looks like another game that'll do a number on my blood pressure.  The Pirates had a rough month.  It'd be nice if we could win the games that we're supposed to win.

Jon
http://tomseaver.blogspot.com

by Jon Earving on Jul 8, 2005 9:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Great...
not another at bat like this....can this retard EVER K someone???

by RMKMets on Jul 8, 2005 9:54 PM EDT reply actions  

Looper isn't fooling anyone
Reminds a bit of Foulke this year.

by peeder on Jul 8, 2005 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

it would help
if he would mix A GODDAMN CURVEBALL EVERY ONCE IN WHILE
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

wow this is more embarassing
than a 15-1 blowout
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:54 PM EDT reply actions  

i agree
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

now he throws a curve
for a first pitch brillian
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 9:58 PM EDT reply actions  

embarassing
simply embarassing
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 10:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Game over
These losers got exactly what they were playing for

by RMKMets on Jul 8, 2005 10:00 PM EDT reply actions  

That fucking stank
And I have nothing else to say.

by peeder on Jul 8, 2005 10:01 PM EDT reply actions  

And with Ishii pitching tomorrow...
we can probably chalk up tomorrow as a likely loss

by RMKMets on Jul 8, 2005 10:02 PM EDT reply actions  

DISGRACE.
They went from getting back to the race to mere pretenders.

Pathetic loss to a pathetic team by a PATHETIC bullpen.

"They win the damn thing by a score of 10-9!"

by ZaBlanc on Jul 8, 2005 10:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Ramon Castro
the Nikon player of the game!

by Ken Phelps on Jul 8, 2005 10:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Beautiful.
Within a breath of naming Castro the player of the game, Howie immediately has to bag on him, justly.  Does someone in the Nikon player of the game naming powow have a sense of humor?

by Ken Phelps on Jul 8, 2005 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

This CANNOT be tolerated
Someone head has to roll after this game....someone needs to send a message to these guys that stupid boneheaded play will not be tolerated

by RMKMets on Jul 8, 2005 10:03 PM EDT reply actions  

guys should be fined
castro esp. and floyd too
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow :(
Worse loss of the year. Beat any loss against the Skankees or the Braves, beats Opening Day, beats them all, I think.

2006. Next year is now.

by JC @ Amazin' Avenue on Jul 8, 2005 10:04 PM EDT reply actions  

willie needs to air out some guys for this
crap, this might be the post game where willie loses it tommy ladsorda style, i mean who he gonna say when he asked what castro was doing out there? or what was cliff floyd or cairo thinking, embarassing day for the mets
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 10:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah.
But I have a feeling the worst certain goats of the game will have to endure is a couple minutes of Willie's chilly, stoical silence, with or without sunglasses.  That Willie sure is one for keeping his cool!

by Ken Phelps on Jul 8, 2005 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

i know
i like that in public, but behind close doors he needs to rip these guys to shreds and have them writing large checks
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

He SHOULD let them have it...
they played to lose this game....those were mistakes that a good team does not make, and they were due to get burned.  Culprits: Heilman (that was a CRAPPY outing), Reyes, Cameron, and the then the BONEHEAD awards to Castro, Floyd, and Cairo (I dont want to hear anymore raving about how he should be a starting 2B)

by RMKMets on Jul 8, 2005 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

What reyes and cammy do?
Error's happen, they're apart of the game man.
"Hate it or Love it the underdog's on top and i'ma shyne homie until my heart stop"-50 cent

by erik from the bx on Jul 8, 2005 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Errors that cost runs...
that stuff should not happen

by RMKMets on Jul 8, 2005 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

i can
live with occasional bad performance, their only human but mental mistake, after mental mistake can not be tolarated
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

That was boneheaded
If Matsui makes that play he gets killed and i hope this team gets ripped in the papers and by the manager. They did the same bullshit in Washington and its good that they NOW pay for it. Looper fuckin stinks too, the defense ain't help him out though.
"Hate it or Love it the underdog's on top and i'ma shyne homie until my heart stop"-50 cent

by erik from the bx on Jul 8, 2005 10:06 PM EDT reply actions  

True...
Everyone wants to rave about Cairo and how he's this or that....he is NOT an everday starting 2B...he just happened to have a nice little hitting streak going while Matsui could not earn a cheer

by RMKMets on Jul 8, 2005 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

agreed
the mets need an entire right side of the infield
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I never thought I would have to hear the words
"An epic struggle with Tike Redman."

by Ken Phelps on Jul 8, 2005 10:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Braden Blooper
I find it hard to believe that nobody is crucifying Braden Looper, in one of his absolute worst outings of the year (and that's a tough competition).

He was terrible for two straight innings. Just terrible. He was right up there as a main contributor to this absolutely deflating loss where the Mets totally deserved to lose.

by PlasticMoonRain on Jul 8, 2005 10:13 PM EDT reply actions  

looper
was just bad, that happens from time to do everybody, the mental mistakes its what making me mad, the bad performance probably could have been overcome with out the mental errors
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Looper
was also pitching for the 3rd day in a row on a nite where he shouldnt have even been needed

by RMKMets on Jul 8, 2005 10:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Yep.
Hell,man takes the piss for most of this.

It's been real, y'all...real terrible.  Time to go get acquainted with some drinks and forget the Bucs for a few hours.  Have a nice weekend.

by Ken Phelps on Jul 8, 2005 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now we have to rely
on Kaz fuckin Isshi to be are stopper, makes me sick.
"Hate it or Love it the underdog's on top and i'ma shyne homie until my heart stop"-50 cent

by erik from the bx on Jul 8, 2005 10:17 PM EDT reply actions  

and even worse too...
the suddenly "struggling and down" Pirates are now gonna be the "fired up and confident" Pirates...

by RMKMets on Jul 8, 2005 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh and msg to Mr. Minaya...
the Mets are now 6.5 games out of the Wildcard...so don't get all crazy with idiotic deals

by RMKMets on Jul 8, 2005 10:20 PM EDT reply actions  

i found the perfect punishment
make them all come out early for baserunning and situtational defensive drills tommorow like around 12 noon, like in spring training since they forgotten how to play both
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Jul 8, 2005 10:24 PM EDT reply actions  

I like it.
Nice touch of humiliation for these soft bastards.

by Ken Phelps on Jul 8, 2005 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Every Time
Every time the Mets go above .500 they play a game like this to remind us of exactly what they are.

by gategem on Jul 8, 2005 11:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Floyd and Castro
Interesting that Floyd hugged Castro in the dugout after the little league baserunning and then it was his garbage play in the outfield that caused the game to be tied. I guess Floyd and Castro are two peas in a pod.

by gategem on Jul 8, 2005 11:13 PM EDT reply actions  

late check-in
That was a horrendously ugly loss, and though my perspective often fails I would like to say this: the last time I felt this way about a Met game was the shutout Jason Jennings pitched against the sad-sack 2001 team (box score here, in case you need refreshing).  This is the clunker of the year for me, no question.

Man, Armando Benitez sure looks different as a slim white guy.

by anonymous on Jul 9, 2005 12:59 AM EDT reply actions  

That game
was a muthafukkkkin disgrace.

That is all...

by CharlieH on Jul 9, 2005 9:38 AM EDT reply actions  

Cairo's Mercy Killing in the 10th
They deserved to lose. I'm glad Cairo ended in the 10th instead of torturing me for a few more innings. I'm glad they got back to the hotel room to watch HBO before it was too late.

Since I can't vent to Randolph, I'll vent here:

--Whether Castro missed the run sign or not, Acta wasn't even on the TV screen on a long camera shot. What's with this 'coach'?--is he narcoleptic? He has a young, unsteady team out there--he has to step up. He's failed. He can't even read fly balls or study ground rules. He has to signal to Wright whether it's smart to steal third with two out, etc. I'd fire him--he's been a liability all year.

--Where's the team communication? Whenever there's a Met on base and a pitch in the dirt, I've yet to see the batter signal the baserunner whether to run or hold. This is selfish individulism.

--Please, no trades (I have nightmares: the Mets trading Wright and Reyes for John Rocker). It's "Wait Til Next Year" already. But obviously Looper has to be gone by 2006. A 'power pitcher' with 13 strikeouts in July? Bullpen by Committee, please, and if possible, develop a few prospects in the ML this year so we can dump this gutless loser.

--Randolph should do what Gil Hodges did in 1969--if you can't field, if you're asleep--march out to the player's position and pull him. A little humility can go a long way.

--Send Beltran to the Cyclones for a week. He'll appreciate ML baseball again. (looks like that 2004 .268 average wasn't a fluke).

The good news: $5 Upper Reserved seats by August 15 or so...

by kjs59 on Jul 9, 2005 3:07 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm Glad You Brought Up The Third Base Coach
I agree with you about Acta. If Castro thought a stop sign was for him that was actually for the runner behind him then Acta was in a bad position. But Willie never blames his or Omar's cronies.

by gategem on Jul 9, 2005 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bad ACTA
thanks, gategem. to elaborate, there's something overboard about this 'let's make the mets a latino-friendly project,' which i feel is both obnoxious tokenism and bad for the team. i live in a latino neighborhood, and 99% root for the bronx--let them. there's a market of 10,000,000 others to sell the team to. players respect and follow those who are intelligent leaders--whether they speak english or spanish or both. omar minaya should cut the ethnocentric crap--and give Acta his walking papers--or tell him optomertrists exist.

better news: by august 15 you'll be able to 'sneak' into loge by the 3rd inning...

by kjs59 on Jul 9, 2005 9:01 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't care if Manny
Doesn't speak at all at third base, he has been bad but you can't blame him for what happened last night THE BALL HIT THE FUCKIN WALL. Castro shouldn't even have to look at the coach to score on that one.
"Here comes the brand new flava in ya ear, it's time for new flava in ya ear, im kickin new flava in ya ear"-Greg Mack

by erik from the bx on Jul 9, 2005 9:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Bronx Logic
As a coach, it is Acta's job to communicate with the players. CLEARLY. CONSTANTLY. PERIOD. Of course Castro blundered. But why? The white baseball hit the white outfield sign with the Pittburgh outfielder, back and glove turned, looking like he was on the fly toward a possible catch. Castro was confused. Acta fell asleep. Again. He should be fired.

by kjs59 on Jul 10, 2005 8:11 PM EDT reply actions  

I'd still
Rather have Manny (non)Acta than Fat Galante...

by CharlieH on Jul 11, 2005 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

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