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Mets after White Sox pitchers

Joel Sherman checks in from the winter meetings to blog a few notes about the goingson down in Orlando. White Sox GM Kenny Williams arrived late in the day on Monday and seems intent on dealing one of his starting pitchers.

He has made it clear that he will trade at least one veteran starter this offseason with Freddy Garcia, Javier Vazquez, Jon Garland and even Mark Buehrle all being discussed. In return, Chicago wants young starting pitching. So the Mets, with such youngsters as Phil Humber and Mike Pelfrey, could be in play here. However, the Mets love both Humber and Pelfrey and currently seem against giving either up.
Those four pitchers rank thusly in ERA since 2004:

Buerhle, #26
Garcia, #35
Garland, #50
Vazquez, #76

and in K/9:

Vazquez, #19
Garcia, #44
Buerhle, #67
Garland, #89

Vazquez is probably the most talented of the four, but he has definitely had his issues these past couple of seasons. Garland wins ballgames but doesn't strike anybody out, which is particularly discouraging for a right-handed starter. Buerhle likewise does nothing but win games and put up low ERAs (except for 2006), and he's also lefty and just 27 years old. Garcia may be the most well-rounded of these guys, and his profile is similar to The Rock.

I have long been a fan of Vazquez's, with is terrific strikeout and walk rates, I think given the right park and the right pitching coach that he can return to dominance. He has a career 4.35 ERA but a terrific 3.25-to-1 strikeout-to-walk ratio. He is only signed for one more year, so giving up one or more top prospects for him -- as opposed to a Dontrelle Willis who has two years until free agency -- may be a tough pill to swallow.

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Vazquez
He's the one I'd want.  His K/BB rate is excellent, and the Mets sorely need a high K type of pitcher.  Yes, he's had his problems over the last 3 seasons, but it's possible that playing in HR-friendly ballparks in Arizona and the South Side of Chicago hurt him.  Obviously, Shea can have a big positive impact on a pitcher's ERA (see Hernandez, Orlando).

I think Vazquez can still be the ace he was in Montreal, and the ace the Yankees thought they were getting when they dealt Nick Johnson and Juan Rivera for him (and before Mel Stottlemyre messed him up).

I declare jihad on Yadier Molina

by Greenpoint Ian on Dec 5, 2006 12:57 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure about Vazquez
I'm not so sure that he will be helped be a return to a pitcher friendly park.  His league adjusted era has been below average for the past three years.

I also think that he is one of those guys for whom DIPS don't tell the whole story.  I have only glanced at the numbers, but he seems to be a guy who has given up a lot of hits on balls put in play over the past three years.  I realize that may be due to defense and park effects, but I also happen to think that some pitchers are better than others in this category (Of course, since I have not crunched the numbers, in the case of Vazquez this is only a hunch that I have).

by Shomov on Dec 5, 2006 2:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Stottlemyre's fault?
Really?  I thought Vazquez just pulled a Whitson under NYC pressure.  And the same wouldn't happen at Shea?  I'm skeptical, and have to wonder whether Vazquez's inconsistency despite some good peripherals and "potential" don't translate into "underachiever."  

Anyway, if Omar's looking to trade for a pitcher, I'd rather he sweeten the offer and try to pry Willis away from Fla.    

by madisonmetsfan on Dec 5, 2006 1:40 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

no such thing
I don't buy the "pulled a Whitson" stuff.  Yes, some guys are better at handling New York than others, but Ed Whitson wasn't good in NY because he wasn't good in San Diego.  He wasn't good, period.

Vazquez was a tremendous pitcher in Montreal, and could be a tremendous pitcher again, if he gets into a better pitchers' park with a good pitching coach like the Jacket.

As for Stottlemyre, I can't prove he messed Vazquez up, but Mel didn't develop any decent pitchers in his time with the Yankees, and several pitchers improved dramatically once they left New York (Contreras, anyone?).  Mel was a bad pitching coach, plain and simple.

I declare jihad on Yadier Molina

by Greenpoint Ian on Dec 5, 2006 2:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If he was that bad a pitching coach...
what's he doing with all those World Series rings?  Sorry, but I'm not buying your argument, especially since you admit you have no evidence whatsoever to support it.  

I suppose my larger point is that the ChiSox will want a lot in exchange for Vazquez, and he's just not worth it.  Dontrelle, on the other hand...

by madisonmetsfan on Dec 5, 2006 7:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Faulty Logic
If he was that bad a pitching coach... what's he doing with all those World Series rings?

It doesn't take a brilliant pitching coach to win world series rings with David Cone, Roger Clemens, Jimmy Key, Andy Pettitte, etc.

If you made the argument that Luis Sojo was a lousy ballplayer and wasn't worth the uniform on his back, is it a reasonable argument for me to say "If he was that bad a player, how did he win four world series titles?"

Stottlemyre was the Mets' pitching coach in 1993. How'd they lose 103 games if he's such a good pitching coach? The simple answer is that good teams -- not good coaches -- win championships. The difference between a great manager and a terrible manager is no more than a few victories in a season; the difference between a great pitching coach and a terrible pitching coach is something less than that.

by Eric Simon on Dec 5, 2006 9:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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